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The Forum > Article Comments > The masculinity crisis > Comments

The masculinity crisis : Comments

By Warwick Marsh, published 17/6/2010

The crises in masculinity and men’s health are closely related to the rampant discrimination men endure at the hands of the system.

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Algoreisrich, if we are going to quote the Bible for comments on how they think women should be treated, then how about these ones?

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

See Al, anyone can cherry pick what they like from the 'Good Book".
Posted by suzeonline, Thursday, 17 June 2010 8:13:36 PM
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Some commentators now link feminisation of society with that other bane of the Western world – Left-wing liberalism. It is probably the fault of weak liberal males, and their tendency to quail in the face of undemocratic ‘positive discrimination’.

The attitude is that, just because a person happens to be a female, that person must be artificially elevated to positions they might not be suited to. Public service departments under Labor Governments are a good example. Incompetent women pushed to the top of the hierarchy simply for being women. The really badly performing departments are inevitably run (badly) by women. This is not to say that there are women who could do the job properly, if only they were treated the same way as men – on merit, not gender.

The good managers – of both sexes – are in the private sector where they have to actually make a profit, and don’t have powerless taxpayers (employers) paying their salaries.

Of course, the days of keeping women bare-foot and pregnant are long gone; but, women trying to be men – being encouraged to be like men by socialist governments – has to be one of the main reason our family structures have broken down. White liberal feminisation is the main reason why Western society and values have broken down.
Posted by Leigh, Thursday, 17 June 2010 8:30:43 PM
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<This article points out that in four out of five marriages the man is the one who is left.>

The question is, why? Women are obviously not feeling very supported or loved in these marriages.

Maybe a study should be done to try and figure out if there is some common reason that these women give for leaving their marriages. Maybe therein lies a clue as to what the men who feel there is a crisis of masculinity can do to earn back their masculine brownie points as respected husbands and fathers and teachers.

There does seem to be a general lack of respect for men by women in society. Maybe it mirrors back the disrespect with which a lot of men treat women
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 17 June 2010 10:47:04 PM
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Come on Cherful, what a crock. We all know how it goes, & it aint like that.

We all know young women aren't enough living alone, so they have to get a bloke.

Then something called biology takes over, & they have the urge to breed.

They use his sperm for that, & his earning capacity to raise their kids. Yes, their kids, [not his], ask the family court about that. Of course, from what paternity testing tells us, quite a few aren't his anyway.

Now the kids are gone, & someone tells them they can get rid of him, but keep most of the money. That family court will give them the house, car, & most of everything else, & half his super. They can live the life of Riley, while he is on the bones ho his ar5e.

Yes there's a masculinity crisis all right, but it's mainly because the men are just too good natured for their own good.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 17 June 2010 11:30:28 PM
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Leigh <"White liberal feminisation is the main reason why Western society and values have broken down."

Are you suggesting that:
Caucasian (that is, only the white people),
liberal (one that favours reform, open to new ideas and tolerant of others behaviours),
feminisation (a supposed change of gender roles in a society toward the characteristically "female" role),
is the main reason western society and values has broken down?

I haven't seen any feminization of the men around me... and I wonder if any of the other men on this site agree they have been 'feminised'.

When did Western society break down?

Do you mean after feminism has succeeded in 'allowing' women to vote, control their own fertility, work outside the home, access education, leave a violent marriage, and have (almost) equal pay for equal work?
Which of these do you think we can do away with?

http://www.helium.com/debates/296550-has-feminism-assisted-the-breakdown-of-family-values/side_by_side

"If giving equal rights to women has been responsible for a breakdown in ‘family values,’ it is the concept of ‘family values’ that needs to be examined rather than the concept of feminism, which has done a great deal to improve the lives of women and girls over the past hundred years."
Posted by suzeonline, Thursday, 17 June 2010 11:59:30 PM
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Dear Suz
I actually looked at your link in an earlier post about the role of men and boys in gender equality..and the first thing which came to my mind was..."Frankfurt school/Marcusian Critical theory/Marxism"

Not a good choice of source or authority for your position.

Yes.. anyone can cherry pick... after all..I did.
I picked the BALANCE verse which puts the others you chose into context.. strange.. no-one wishing to have a 'Chrisitan bash' ever quotes it....but they sure as heck quote the ones you did.

But back to your quotes... "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." please just consider for a moment.. how 'The Lord' treated people...how he acted in regard to his disciples.
-Selfless...
-loving..
-compassionate..
-patient etc...most of all
-self sacrifice.

The Timothy reference:

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

You should have quoted the next bit :) it's a deuzy

"Women shall be saved through having children...if they continue in faith love and holiness"

I confess, they are probably the most difficult verses in the whole New Testament to grapple with. I think Paul was having a bad day :)

My own tradition has generally taken the first part very seriously.(the silence bit) though now we have probably more women speaking than men.... There are precedents which suggest this was not a firm/rigid inflexible rule..such as.
Rom 16:1

1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea.

Of course the concept of deacon/diakonos was 'servant' rather than ruler.. and this reflects Christ's example too.

Bottom line.. however we understand the Timothy reference to silence, I believe it has a context (congregational meetings)...and the framework it exists in is one of servanthood...not dictatorship.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Friday, 18 June 2010 4:59:10 AM
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