I feel it’s important that I provide a little more in-depth background to your claims to paint the real “true picture”, Boaz.

<<God created mankind, who sinned and turned away.>>

Considering god would have known in advance what was going to happen and that the mythical figures of Adam and Eve wouldn’t have had any concept of, or known the consequences of doing wrong, this would be the equivalent of giving a toddler a loaded gun, knowing in advance he was going to hurt himself with it, then punishing him for the rest of his life for doing what you knew was already going to happen.

What a disgusting god.

<<God reached out to mankind in reconciliatory gestures and a coveannt.>>

And all the while committing mass genocide like a petulant, psychotic little child and effectively losing the moral high ground by ruling with a do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do mentality.

<<Finally.. God showed us his love in Christ. "I came that they might have life">>

Finally, after screwing up with the creation of the first humans, then screwing up with mankind and having to wipe them out by drowning them in an horrific flood survived only by the most “righteous man” who ends up blind-drunk and naked and then curses his son for seeing him naked, then having to create multiple languages following the Tower of Babel, then having to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah survived only by the most “righteous man” who - again - gets blind drunk, only this time he sleeps with his daughters.

Finally, after all this, the only way this god can think of to correct his mistake and save us from he’s going to have done to us because of his own screw ups, is to sacrifice his son.

Yep, that’s the best he could think of: Send someone to Earth who’s going to be a really nice person, but we have to kill him otherwise it’s not gonna work.

Everything this god does ends up a total catastrophe!

Continued...

...Continued

<<In this life, you have a total free choice. Do what ever you wish, you are free.>>

But if you don’t do what god says, then he’ll have you tortured for an eternity. That’s right, infinite punishment for finite crimes.

Because he loves you.

But wait! If a god already knows what’s going to happen, then that means everything we have done and will do has already been pre-determined. So we don’t actually have free will after all, do we?

As for the argument that a secular ethics class teacher would have no response for why we should behave ethically, I take it you would be raping and pillaging if it weren’t for you religious beliefs, Boaz? What about the fact that we are all accountable to each other?

Someone who only behaves themselves because of the threat of punishment or the promise of a reward deserves no credit for their behaviour and kindness.

CJ... well observed :) I was doing 2 things.

1/ Showing that there is good cause for traditional "Christians" of a nominal nature to be concerened about the erosion and attacks on their cultural well being...

2/ By taking a harsh line, I am highlighting how it 'could' be if people really did take such things in a much more serious way.

By such highlighting.. it is a kind of 'hint' that people who are so dedicated (it would seem) to destroying any vestige of "Christendom" in our government culture and popular practice.. should re-think this, because if nominal Christians (emphasis on 'nominal') were to take unkindly to such.. it could end up like the time in Tassy when the Catholics rocked up with chunks of 2x4 to beat the sh** out of the protestants who were having an "Ex Catholic becomes Protestant" celebration meeting in a publically funded hall.

Here is an example of one 'faith community' seeking to use the law against that same heritage in America. (based on a flawed premise that there is separation of Church and State in the USA ..there isn't -based on the constitution)
http://www.jdl.org/index.php/blog/jdl-sues-city-of-lancaster-over-sectarian-prayer/ Sheesh and they wonder why there is anti semitism ? This sure does not help their cause.

You know..rub people the wrong way for long enough and they might react.

Glad you recognize the 'pleasant Christian stuff' ...indeed knowing Christ is very pleasant.

Just a minor geopolitical point. IRELAND The government there tried to implement with the force of law.. "Blashpemy" to be extended to cover all religions (code for "Islam") which is a direct outcome of the call from the OIC in the UN for nations to ratify and enforce their quaint "Defamation of Religions" resolution.. which would see myself and proxy and others sent off to prison quick smart.

If these things were not actually happening..(and predictable) I would not say as much as I do.
Remember RMIT? aaah.. same deal... same people.. same problem.

BANJO P

//Proselytisme in every shape and form should be banished from public schools. //

hmmm..and denial of access to information about faith is not, by default, secular 'proselytizing' ? :)

Dear Mikk,
The Bible is very clear about one thing, what is impossible for man is possible with God. All the talk about religion, ethics, morals, cults, without God is only hot air. Jesus the son of God came to seek and save a lost world, mankind, for all have missed the mark. The word sin is an archery term meaning to miss the mark or the target. All have sinned and fallen short of Gods best (glory). Jesus is the word of God. The root of the word wicked is wick or twisted. Until you get the revelation that God is good and that he loves you, you will never repent(to turn around) and go to God and allow his word to untwist or wash your mind (the washing of the word0. So any target other than Gods only begotten son is to miss the mark. If you have a problem with Gods word sort it out with him not me. Jesus is also the truth, the way, and the light that allows man to see from a different perspective. As Hank Williams sang until the light goes on you will always miss the mark. God loves you and all your miss guided mates but it is your choice, for it is appointed unto man to die once then the judgment.
the book of eccelesiastes chapter 12 says these wise word
Remember your Creator in the day of your youth, before the days of trouble come and the years approach when you will say, "I find no pleasure in them"-- before the sun and the light and the moon and the stars grow dark, cont

cont
and the clouds return after the rain;
when the keepers of the house tremble,
and the strong men stoop,
when the grinders cease because they are few, and those looking through the window grow dim;
when the doors to the streat are closed
and the sound of grinding fades;
when men rise up at the sound of birds,
but all their songs grow faint;
when men are afraid of heights
and of dangers in the streets;
when the almond tree blossoms
and the grasshopper drags himself along
and desire is no longer stirred;
Then man goes to his eternal home
and mourners go about the streets.
Remember him -- before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
or the weel broken at the well,
and the dust returned to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

here is the conclusion of the matter;
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
regards Richie 10