McReal

Maybe, but there is more to life than a bunch of religious tales, and unless GRE covers philosophies and faiths, it is still giving religion a free kick.

Simon Longstaff has never hidden his faith, he has always been quite open and honest about his beliefs, a reflection of his desire for ethical behaviour no doubt...and somewhat more honest than the NSW SRE crew.

Do read this story of evangelising and proselytising through SRE on school camps:
http://www.youthworks.net/good-stuff-ministry-articles.php?c=24&w=7002&r=Y

Read the 'why SRE teachers must go on school camps' and also the radio snippet on The Importance of Schools Ministry

Both are clear indications of why the Anglicans, whose web page it is, want access to very young and impressionable children.

Intelligent adults would tell them to F !@# off.

While I disagree with the concept of ethics teaching in classrooms I recognise as McReal outlines, the good intent of the NSW ethics program to provide options.

When in primary school, we opted out of religious teaching for our youngest child, only to find later that the alternative was her sitting outside the RE classroom at a desk on her own, and given some crayons and pens to draw with. There was no alternative and much of the lesson could be heard from her position outside. Most of it was scripture teachings nothing at all about promoting respect or good behaviours.

In the small scenario shown on SBS Insight on this issue, a class of quite young people were discussing the act of lying. When is a lie acceptable and why eg. white lie to say to Grandma, yes we liked your knitted sweater as opposed to other sorts of lies. The teacher got the children to think about lying and what the implications of lying might be.

Personally, for me this is a job for parents whether coming at it from the religious or not. However, I was disappointed to hear religious leaders criticise the program only on the basis of the idea that ethics cannot be taught without a religious flavour. The persistence of the notion that the act of lying cannot be understood except from a sin and punishment perspective, rather than an idea of the collective good.

It is cruel IMO to teach children that humans are nothing more than sinners without any redeeming features unless we seek forgiveness from a supernatural being of which no-one has yet provided any evidence. It is no wonder that many religious leaders fear lack of access to the very young is being threatened by secular thinking and freedom of expression.

It beggars belief that we still have RE in secular public schools in a society where, if individual freedom is really respected and valued, we cannot leave these matters for personal choice and the home.

Thanks TBC - that website's a bit insidious, isn't it? If they can't get 'em at school, then clearly the strategy is to get 'em while they're on school camp.

It is the Anglicans who are busily stacking P&C committees in order to try and veto trials of the ethics subject, isn't it?

Glen C

I had exhausted my 4 posts quickly yesterday hence was not able to get back to you. The question you are pushing is
'why is what people do in private that hurts nobody your business?'

It is not anyone's business if it does not hurt anyone else. However the promoting and condoning of bestiality should be everyone's business. When filth is poured into our children's minds whether by the moral bereft ABC or one of its high priests 'ethicist' in Singer it should become every decent parents business.

Adults have the right pretend that God does not exist and to indulge in every perverted act they wish but they have no right to shove it in society's face.

CJM...Yes, the Anglicans are busy beavers, as Dr. John Kaye (NSW Greens, Upper House) says, clearly taking a lesson from Sussex Street ALP factional goons, or maybe Turnbull in his Wentworth seat?

But the Australian Christian Lobby have also endorsed this action previously.

As Di Giblin says (NSW P&C Assoc) there is nothing wrong with encouraging parents to take up their responsibilities within their P&C, but it would be as wrong for one 'side' as the other to stack meetings as the Anglicans clearly intended.... that just leads to bad blood, not an increase in democracy.

I do hope you have the time to listen to the audio of the 'vicar' who gloats about targeting certain groups within schools and the community, it's on the same page.

It would be interesting to hear from Runner on the article and audio.

The actions of 'real Christians' or desperate bandits?

"Adults have the right pretend that God does not exist and to indulge in every perverted act they wish but they have no right to shove it in society's face."

This is the sort of comment I referred to in another thread that might be seen as arrogant and self righteous in relation to fundamentalism.

Astonishing that it is the adults who believe in a supernatural being that are not 'pretending' despite it being a faith based perspective. Those that simply seek some logical and rational thinking or evidence are the pretenders.

This statement also makes an assumption that those who don't believe in God must by nature be perverse and those that do won't be despite all evidence to the contrary about criminal activity within some faiths.

Bestiality is wrong if one belives in the notion of mutual consent as clearly an animal cannot give consent. Clearly harm and abuse is being perpetrated in this situation.