Houellebecq: <"I always wonder at what point in pynch's head the nice little 'boys' (The innocent) turn into those evil men (The guilty by virtue of their gender).">

Boys don't necessarily turn into evil men. I don't even think the majority of "evil men" are "evil". I think they are self absorbed and that most of them suffer. They suffer because they have a sense of entitlement that leads them to think they are deprived when everything and everyone (including females around them) fail to meet their demands. Some will hit out brutally in their frustration. I note too that this phenomenon is less apparent in younger blokes. The younger generation is so much better at gender relations than ours has been so far.

To Vanna:

V: <"At the start of these meetings, all the teachers assured me that they were not feminist and "liked males".">

Well the premise was mistaken at the start - that you sought such assurances and that they gave them, indicates to me ignorance about feminism amongst all of you.

V: <"Then they never once said a single positive word about the boy students. The boys were "lazy" or "misbehaved" or were "disruptive" etc.">

I can believe that. It annoys me too when I hear this sort of rubbish where children are expected to sit still for too long and treated like little robots. I prefer the Violet Oaklander approach to classroom discipline myself - it celebrates and uses childhood energy to the child's (and class's) benefit.

V:<" It appears that the boys were responding to the teachers, and the teachers did not know how to motivate the boys.">

Absolutely correct I am sure. Studies bear out exactly what you describe - except that the phenomenon isn't restricted to teachers or children of either sex or to opposite sex interactions. A teacher (or any adult - parents too) of either sex can bring about the same result if they have a preconditioned notion of what they expect from the child. That's one reason I dislike the practice of forwarding a child's records from one school to another.

For Robert:

R: "... what incarceration is trying to achieve. Punishment, rehabilitation, deterrent, protection for the rest of us."

I would say: all of the above but rape isn't an acceptable form of punishment. Every human being is entitled to retain dominion over their own body and soul.

R: <"...risk reduction strategies... access to consensual sexual activity or even privacy and some porn) ...">

If there is enough 'privacy' for rape to happen, I'd have thought there would be enough privacy for consensual sexual activity. If there isn't, then I agree that there should be. Condoms should be available anyway.

I don't agree with the provision of porn. I think it is counter intuitive to the idea of rehabilitation for someone who is in gaol for beating people up or for rape or CSA.

Someone working in a gaol once told me that some of the men under their supervision formed very strong emotional bonds - like, a love relationship. I don't know what happens for them when one is released. I'd be interested to know what happens for men in that situation (like, inside them - their emotions and worldview).

R: <"Other alternatives such as removal of the offending anatomical components would cause some concern on other fronts.">

I don't agree with any sort of torture or mutilation.

How about Bromide? How about individual cells?

R: <"On a broader social front getting rid of a lot of the prudery around sex might help encourage better attitudes to sex and reduce some of the issues which contribute to sex offenders choices (a personal view).">

Are you talking about out in the wider community? You mean - to prevent sex offences ?

I would say that all depends on the crime. We already have a society where people can access pornography; visit sex workers; have casual sex. What exactly is there that needs to be available that would reduce child sexual abuse or rape?

On the other hand, there is a stifling intolerance of homosexuality and of many paraphilias (which IMO shouldn't even be classified as any form of pathology).

Pynchme,
It does seem that feminists in education have gotten themselves into a rather difficult bind.

They can't say anything positive about the male gender, because that would be supporting "men's violence against women"

But now they can't motivate boy students, and academic standards continue to decline, while more and more money is handed over to education.

It also means that fewer are willing to get tertiary education in universities that harbour so many feminists, or get any type of tertiary education, and now we have to import more and more skilled labor through immigration, which indirectly increases house prices, and places more strain on the environment, and generally makes everything more expensive and more difficult in time.

Thank goodness we have so much feminism in education.

PS. After the principal of the fore mentioned school let it slip that she didn't wan't boys to go to university because male graduates could earn more money than female graduates (by her account), there was so much complaint from parents that she was forced to retire early. One less feminist in the education system.

Pynchme, "but rape isn't an acceptable form of punishment" - agreed, my point was that before we can work out how to reduce the incidence of rape in prison we need to know why we lock people up. That alters the options.

Personally I'd prefer to see prison only used to protect society from individuals who have demonstrated themselves to be a danger to others and who have shown an unwillingness or inability to work with other alternatives. Those individual should stay there until they can be credibly believed to be rehabilitated.

"I don't agree with the provision of porn." - a private space without visual aids (eg porn) is unlikely to reduce any physical pressures. There may be exceptions but I think most men do far better when flying solo with appropriate visual aids. I gather that's different for most women.

I'm not up with the state of chemical temporary castration, if there are effective chemical means to reduce the risk to others from someone who can't or won't modify their own choices then they should be used.

"Are you talking about out in the wider community? You mean - to prevent sex offences ?"

I think that there are still a lot of sexual hangup's in society and very mixed messages. There are still significant problems with peoples self image, body taboo's that contribute to unhealthy attitudes to sex etc.

I think that discussion of rape has been overly dominated by a feminist insistence that it's mostly about power which looks to me to be based more on an agenda than honest research. By making it about just power we may be missing some simple measures which could reduce contributing factors.

I don't know what those measures might be but I'd like to see research and debate less dominated by that one issue.

R0bert

Robert: <"I think that discussion of rape has been overly dominated by a feminist insistence that it's mostly about power which looks to me to be based more on an agenda than honest research.">

You see Robert, this is why you and I are a long, long way from getting along. That sneaky inference that happens by lumping "feminist insistence" with a call (from you) for "honest research". You speak with forked tongue Robert; and that doesn't bode well for mutual respect.

- especially since you have no problem whatsoever sitting on your hands and uncritically accepting (ie: secretly applauding) the atrocious nonsense that some pro MRA posters put up as 'research'.

Re: rape - it seems to me that you have an extraordinary vanilla image of rape - as if it's just sex that includes a li'l bit of insistence by one ardent individual against another. It can be that; but that isn't descriptive of all or even most rape.

Does normal sex generally include punching the other person in the nose or holding a pillow over their face or yanking their hair painfully or defecating on their chest or making them perform multiple vile acts or leaving them beaten or pushing them out of a car or leaving them drugged and sick in a strange street somewhere, or... well sorry to be (a little bit) graphic but I wonder if you get my point.

Having made that point and taking a functionalist perspective, it may be that rape behaviour and rape motives change over time (like historically rape ( such of the lead warriors of opposing armies) was a way to subdue an enemy; rape of women was to obtain tribal dominance and even served as a marriage rite at times - think of the Sabines).

Anyway, to the prison rape issue - next post.