The Forum > Article Comments > Why can't a woman's s*xuality be more like a man's? > Comments
Why can't a woman's s*xuality be more like a man's? : Comments
By Leslie Cannold, published 10/6/2010Is low libido in women pathological or just evidence that female s*xuality is different to men's? And is a pill the answer?
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Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 8:19:29 PM
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vanna
Just look around you at the women you know. Are they all man-haters? Are all the men you know women-haters? Bettina Arndt is just one feminist academic who espouses equality for women while at the same time has a genuine and sincere desire and care for men. Most women do. One can be pro-feminism or more importantly anti-patriarchy without being anti-male. Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 16 June 2010 9:03:43 PM
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Pelican
"Just look around you at the women you know. Are they all man-haters? Are all the men you know women-haters?" It isn't enough to ask whether these people openly hate the other gender. We should also ask whether they support systems and understandings that are unfair on either gender. Do they have an unhelpful interest in arranging things to suit themselves and their gender? I suggest that treating some people's libido as normal and expecting others to take drugs that interfere with their body's natural libido, purely for the benefit of the other gender is an example. Posted by benk, Thursday, 17 June 2010 8:03:58 AM
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I agree benk. I am not into chemical intrusion on that basis either except in the most extreme of cases such as pedophilia as already mentioned, and that is done on a voluntary basis. I took that libido comment as made in humour.
I wonder if all these men who worry that the world is all being re-designed to advantage women ever stood up for women when it was very much the other way. Were there male academics writing positive things about the role of women? Some men in the 70s even got up in arms about domestic violence shelters purporting that what was between a man and wife was for the home, despite in some cases numerous beatings and little assistance from law enforcement. Rock and a hard place for many women. Posted by pelican, Thursday, 17 June 2010 9:19:56 AM
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I've found the other link I'd misplaced which does have some positive things to say about men (those men identified as pro-feminist). It also provides some interesting discussion about the issues facing them within the feminist movement
http://www.thescavenger.net/feminism-a-pop-culture/feminist-men-friend-or-foe-83456.html Pelican I'd be surprised if the same level of across the board negativity about feminity existed in academic writing at any point in modern times as I've seen about masculinity in most of the feminist material I've read trying to answer vanna's question. Perhaps that comes from defining masculinity on the basis of what they don't like. I suspect that it's much more likely that material would reinforce traditional stereotypes (women are good nurturers but not so good at traditionally male roles) rather than a wholesale attack on all things feminine and discource on why feminity needs to be transformed (or ditched) so that women become more masculine. The women I know are not generally haters of men or all things male but there was clear evidence in the material I found that many of those engaged in academic feminist work lean in that direction. R0bert Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 17 June 2010 10:01:55 AM
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"Pelican I'd be surprised if the same level of across the board negativity about feminity existed in academic writing at any point in modern times as I've seen about masculinity in most of the feminist material I've read trying to answer vanna's question. Perhaps that comes from defining masculinity on the basis of what they don't like. "
RObert Perhaps not so much in recent times now that women are not considered feeble minded. But there is across the board negativity about feminism as we well experience on OLO. There always seems to be a bit of vitriole in the mix among the well reasoned arguments. You are probably right about what might be seen as anti-male comments coming from the view of what was perceived as 'wrong' with the status quo. Afterall a movement of any sort usually comes from a sense of injustice or inequality, and in this case the patriarchial nature of society was seen as working against the aspirations of many women in those times. It is difficult to seek change without criticising what is current. Supporting feminism or the notion of better choices for women (and hopefully for men too) by its nature means criticism. I don't think most rational feminists would paint men as inherently evil. Ideally there would be opportunities for men and women to undertake roles once considered unsuitable. There are certain things women can do better overall and that men can do, but these should not be the benchmark to exclude on the basis of gender. eg. I am quite small and not terribly strong and would not be suitable for a job where heavy lifting was required, but this does not mean other women will be unsuitable. Male nurses are proving equally as capable as women. Posted by pelican, Thursday, 17 June 2010 2:49:20 PM
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http://www.europrofem.org/contri/2_04_en/en-gend/03en_gen.htm
http://www.xyonline.net/content/pro-feminist-publishing-delights-and-dilemmas
Masculinity is mentioned a lot in the material I found but from what I've seen it does appear to be almost always in a negative context. I found a lot of that but I did not see any examples where what was defined as masculine (and I question some of those definitions) was cited as a positive characteristic.
Perhaps it's the search terms I'm using or the material I have access to.
I think that any genuine attempt to examine issues of gender would find both negatives and positives in masculinity. Just as there are things men can learn from women there are things women can learn from men. In my search to answer vanna's question I did not see a single example of that (within the criteria of looking for academic works).
One piece (not Australian) had some interesting material around the idea that "the ‘men as problem, women as victim’ discourse continues to hold sway" http://www.siyanda.org/docs/esplen_greig_masculinities.pdf
"The need to move beyond generalised, binary stereotypes of female victims and male perpetrators was a recurring issue in discussions.
Some participants argued that the image of men as perpetrators of wrongs, an image that pervades much of the ‘gender and development’ literature, inhibits men from accessing services and undermines men’s motivation to engage with gender equality initiatives, especially when they may themselves be marginalised and poor"
R0bert