" the majority of these countries manage - the losers
and users scuttle away like rats..."

Lets look at the facts.

Much of Australia's population arrived here as immigrants
and many of those were refugees. People who were forced
to leave their homelands due to war and persecution.
They came seeking asylum from countries such as Iran, Iraq,
Afghanistan, Vietnam, Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia, and other
troubled lands including Holocaust survivors fleeing the Nazis
and also those fleeing the blood-stained Soviet regime.

They brought with them courage, and resilience.

Just one example is Professor Munjed Al Muderis who was born in
Iraq and fled the country following an incident in which he
refused to mutilate the ears of army soldiers under the orders
of Saddam Hussein. Prof Muderis was kep in an immigration
Centre in Western Australia. He has developed a new
generation of implant prosthetics and has given his
life to helping others.
He today is known as the most incredible and best
orthopedic surgeon worldwide. He continues to better the lives
of others.

There are undoubtedly many rats in Australia, many users,
many bludgers, many toxic no-hopers. But they are usually not
ones who contribute anything of value
to either society, their communities, or this
nation. All we can do
is feel sorry for
them and leave them to stew in their toxicity.

Paul, Thank You for raising this topic for discussion.

If we took the misinformation and lies out of
some of the posters on this forum, they'll shrink
to the size of one's hand. If we took the malice
out of some of them - they'd totally disappear.

"Most refugees lost in a nasty local fight."

They were probably the ones who backed the US puppet ruler in the botched protest / coup attempts, brought by the CIA and later the National Endowment for Democracy.
America conducts the coups / protests / overthrows, and when it goes pear-shaped the other western countries have to pick up the slack on the ones who need to leave.
- Just like a well-oiled machine.

Don't laugh, it's more truth than fiction.

Personally I always thought it was more like Europeans who didn't want to stay in Europe and fix the huge mess after the war, they'd rather relocate to a nice clean fresh country and not deal with the cost of 'post war' rebuilding of their own countries.

Also, you all do realise that immigration takes the best and brightest from the poor countries, so there's no way for the country to ever get any better.

Dear Paul,

«there is more to national wealth than simple population numbers. ttbn do you not consider education levels, stability of government, resources, investment etc.»

No "national wealth" for me, thanks - nationalism isn't my cup of tea.
While I don't believe I have a right to tell others (refugees or otherwise) where to live, I prefer they stay elsewhere, if possible.

What the state considers "education levels" are in fact indoctrination levels, subservience levels, comfortable-city-job levels - nothing to do with wisdom; What it considers "resources" are its exploitation and harassment; What it considers "investment" is the fueling of capital to make us suffer a more complicated life.

No, I don't want stability of government - I would rather have it toppled and be gone!

«I assume if Bill Gates and Warren Buffett suddenly decided to immigrate to Australia, and invested their wealth here, and you disappeared to Ethiopia, Australia would be net worse off.»

This "Australia" would not be better or worse off because it is an inanimate object, it does not care.

But you and I, the people who live in Australia, would be worse off if these two came over. They are not refugees, nor would they come here to enjoy their final years in peace and quiet - rather, they would bring the storm with them, more busy-busy rat-race run after luxuries, more technology to close in on us and they would disturb our own peace by flying around in noisy helicopters.

Should these two decide to come, they would be followed, bringing along others who are attracted by the smell of money, not by the peaceful lifestyle this continent can offer.

«In Australia the most consistent and best performing state over the past 20 years for income and wealth generation is New South Wales, whilst the poorest is Tasmania, just ahead of South Australia.»

That's NSW's ill fortune to be "performing". Have you considered at what cost? They have more income (more expenses too!) and wealth, yet they work and commute the longest hours, never getting to really enjoy the money they earn.

Hi Foxy,
"If we took the misinformation and lies out of
some of the posters on this forum, they'll shrink
to the size of one's hand. If we took the malice
out of some of them - they'd totally disappear."

America is like the plantation owner, and Britain is like the house slave.
France, Germany, Poland, they're like the field slaves.
Many of the others are like bottom-feeders. CARP.
The Baltic's well they are Chihuahua countries.
Tiny little ankle biters that talk and act-tough and think they're Rottweilers.

In the past refugees were sponsored because they were refugees !