For over forty years a successful community sponsorship of refugees program has operated in Canada. With the ever increasing numbers of displaced persons in the world through wars and other catastrophes, now being added to by growing numbers of climate refugees, its welcome that private citizens and organisations are now getting involved in refugee resettlement in countries like Australia.

Following the success of the people powered, "Home to Bilo" campaign for the Nadesalingam refugee family many Australians are now aware and involved in grass roots private community sponsorship of refugee families.

There is more detail at the following link;

http://refugeesponsorship.org.au/

Hi Paul,

When my parents and other Displaced People were invited
to come to this country post World War II - they had to work
for two years in jobs wherever the government sent them
before they were allowed to settle where they wanted.

Today, the circumstances are different.

Community groups have always helped. Traditionally ethic
groups took care of their own because they were looked
upon as "outsiders" by the locals so they tended to
stick to their own communities. It is good to know
that things are slowly changing - and that locals
are becoming more welcoming towards refugees.

It's a step in the right direction as you point out.

Thanks for your link Paul.

Here's another one:

http://refugeecouncil.org.au/australia-finally-gets-the-refugee-sponsorship-model-the-community-wants/

"Climate refugees". What a con! Which countries have become unlivable because of climate change?

"Australians now have the opportunity to sponsor and welcome refugee families into their local communities through ‘community sponsorship’ – like they do in Canada!"

Like they do in Canada. That’s the place where the WEF trained stooge of a PM persecutes actual Canadian farmers. Oh let's be like them!

Started by "a group of leading Australian charities and nonprofits", the Community Refugee Sponsorship Australia is an 'independent charity', probably already chin deep in taxpayer handouts, and of the usual Marxist persuasion as all the rest of these sanctimonious outfits. You can bet that the people at the top are not volunteers - like most 'charities', which are actually political organisations, feeding off taxpayers.

These types make me want to throw up. They wouldn’t lift a finger to help their fellow Australians, whom they despise.

The 'refugee' industry and mass immigration, is all part of the WEF global Great Reset.

The Refugee Council of Australia (RCOA) has welcomed the Federal Government’s new refugee sponsorship pilot, saying it is the model Australian communities have been seeking for more than a decade.

Which communities exactly?

The ones predominately filled with traditional Aussies, or the Australian communities full of recent immigrants that want to bring over their mum's, dad's, great uncles and second cousins and the rest of their extended families?

Are Australians now becoming a minority group in Australia?

Hi Foxy,

Thanks for that positive input, the idea of a local community of "strangers" getting together and sponsoring/supporting a refugee family has great appeal. Post WWII it was difficult for migrants from war ravaged Europe to settle in Australia, particularly those early trail blazers who didn't have that ethnic or family connection. This community sponsorship is also a way of diversifying new arrivals into the regions, and preventing ethnic enclaves developing in the larger cities. The practical support begins from the day of arrival (actually before that) with the physical meeting of the new family at the airport by their sponsors and organisational support staff. New arrivals need a lot of help, with housing, employment, schooling, the day to day things of life we all take for granted.

How does this new program (begun in Australia mid 2022) work;

"A group of five or more adult volunteers (known as a ‘Community Supporter Group’ or ‘CSG’) will provide 12 months of practical hands-on support to a refugee household from their date of arrival in Australia. CSGs can be based in a community anywhere in Australia, provided they can demonstrate capacity to provide appropriate support to a refugee household within that community."

"Community Refugee Sponsorship Australia (CRSA) will approve, train and support CSGs and connect them with a refugee household referred into CRISP."

"Refugee participants in this program will be those referred to Australia for resettlement by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees having been identified as in urgent need of resettlement. They could come from a wide variety of countries and may have been waiting for the opportunity to resettle in a safe new country for a long time."

P/S Don't you just love it when our resident little gremlin chimes into the discussion oozing with all his "positivity". I picture him as an Albert Steptoe type character.

ttbn, climate refugees, look no further than Pakistan today.

"Which communities exactly?"

Good question, AC; but don't expect an answer. Most of these claims are bruited about with the knowledge that most people are not interested enough to ask. Thankfully most Australians - and most OLO posters for that matter - are not like the Marxist wackos here who think that anyone who disagrees with their crap is 'negative'. Hardly an winning argument.

As for your question about Australians becoming a minority in our own country, that depends on how long this mass immigration mania continues. The old joke about governments 'electing' a new constituency might not be a joke after all.

The next three years will be critical: with the communistic ALP, anything is likely to happen, and the opposition is yet to get the message that it is going to have to get back to what it used to be, and actually start opposing instead of sitting back like stunned mullets.

And, Paul - Pakistan is not uninhabitable because of severe flooding anymore than NSW is. It's up to the Pakistani government to fix the problem, not the Australian government, which hasn't done much for flood-affected Australians itself. 'Climate refugee' is just another meaningless and hysterical phrase put about by the usual suspects (like you) banging on with the climate 'emergency' bullshite to keep the vulnerable on edge. Well, more and more people are waking up to the nonsense. You might think you're a big man haranguing a few people in the very small OLO pond, but you are a real life joke.

Dear Paul,

In 21st Century Australia the fact that more than 1 in 4
Australians were not born here seems unremarkable, as
though it's always been that way. All around us we see
the celebration of the richness of our life-style that
comes through the input of so many cultures.

What it means to be an Aussie has morphed to meet the
challenges and diversity of our changing times.
Australians today are more sophisticated, better educated,
and more mature. They represent our place in a world
of global interactions.

I've just spent an afternoon with my grand-children.
I am amazed at how much they know. And the interest they
show in what's going on in the world.
Times do change. The differences between 1950s Australia
and today's Australia is huge. One has to only look at the
school textbooks to see how information that's being
provided to students has changed. And for the better.

"Which communities exactly?"

The Gosford (NSW) Anglican Church community for one. Checking them out, I can't see even one Black Marxists from Afghanistan in the congregation, must have been an off Sunday. I'm sure "Albert" will detect reds under the beds, sorry I should say, in the pews.

ttbn, the joke is you with your archaic ideas and beliefs which you mask as conservatism, more like a stick-in-the-mud philosophy. No one would ask, or expect you to do any community good, sponsoring refugees included. Fortunately Australia and the World doesn't need people like you anymore, if they ever did, you have become irrelevant.

I've never been a fan of the multiculturalism agenda.
I've always thought that using immigration is a tool of the globalists to divide all sovereign countries and turn all the issues and arguments into matters of race and identity.
Change the people = Change the governments, cause and effect.
I liked it better how it was, and I'm not afraid to say it.
People are at the heart of things tribalistic in some ways.
We feel more comfortable, safer and unified as a nation when we're around our own people.
- Whether right or wrong, that's what I think.

But I don't to be the kind of person that hates foreign people just because they're foreign, that would be racist, even though I recognise racism and nationalism are kind of related.

In any case all these new Albo-Aussies, well we can't load them all up and send them back.
They're considered as Australian as Anzac biscuits now ttbn.
We were the country that coined 'fair go'
- But I wonder if we're giving ourselves a fair go with all these foreigners.

Like I may support Russia in all this geopolitical shenanigans, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't help a Ukrainian in need.

But am I willing to accept these people who would call me racist and probably many hate white or western people anyway, who would also state that we don't have any culture, whilst forcing me to accept bow to theirs.

And finally what can we even do about it anyway?
We may have democracy, but that doesn't mean we Australians get to have any say in the things that matter, all those decisions have been decided by the higher ups, and we get to argue about gays, religions and indigenous issues, and the weather and the price of petrol like they want us too.

There was a show on ABC earlier called 'Displaced', I only caught a minute of it though.
http://iview.abc.net.au/show/displaced

Dear Paul,

«many Australians are now aware and involved in grass roots private community sponsorship of refugee families.»

Sounds wonderful... until I actually clicked on your link and found that there is nothing private or grass-roots about it, rather it is all coordinated with, funded and monitored by government!

True grass-roots private endeavours to help refugees would:
* decide by themselves who is a refugee that should be helped
* pay themselves for helping the refugees
* never direct and expose refugees to government institutions (such as centerlink)
* help the refugees to enter, such as by finding/building them boats that are good enough to reach Australia and help them to sneak through border controls, or produce counterfeit passports, or free them by raiding immigration-detention prisons, then hide them in cellars and double walls, or in the bush, then feed them and care for them, at one's own expense of course
* Operate as an underground

In short, this is yet another wing of the established regime - how disappointing!

«Following the success of the people powered, "Home to Bilo" campaign for the Nadesalingam refugee family»

The campaign actually failed - the family was locked up and suffered tremendously for years (and we, tax-payers, had to pay so many millions to keep them cruelly imprisoned). What happened then was that government changed and the new government took over and capitalised on the people's effort, thus managed to neutralise the risk (for them) of having a genuine people's movement.

AC,

You are right: multiculturalism = globalism, and it is controlling and anti-Western.

Diversity is definitely not a strength for the West; it leads to the loss of nationality and weakens democracy. Democratic political institutions are more likely to develop and survive in countries that are homogeneous.

Multiculturalism has become an aggressive ideology against the once predominant moral, legal and religious traditions of the West. The mainly government-sponsored construct operates as a subversive strategy for the deconstruction of Western Civilisation,

Apart from a few privileged people, societies gain little from multiculturalism but bewilderment and loss of national identity.

So serious is the problem that barely a third of young Australians now think that Australia is worth fighting for.

We are succumbing to the arrogant fascinations of regressive pseudo-intellectuals and politicians, who are cultural relativists

Hi AC,

I differentiate between migrants and refugees, although migrants can be refugees. My GP of 35 years, was both, coming to Australia post war as a Hungarian "refo". In his lifetime he made an outstanding contribution to Australia, I'm proud to not only call him our family doctor, but a friend as well, a man who never put himself above any other person. I have some fabo stories we had in conversation, some funny some serious. One thing is for sure Australians enjoy the living standard they do today, partly due to the positive contributions made by migrants. Unless you're a First Nations person (and them to) we are all a product of migration. Although most of the make-up of the First Fleet was English, there were many other nationalities on board as well, from Irish to Africans.

AC, you say; "I liked it better how it was", and just how was it, and when? I think we can overplay the nationalistic race card. Australia despite some pain has been successful at integrating migrants over time, particularly in successive generations.

"kind of person that hates foreign people just because they're foreign" I don't believe you are, there are few deliberate racists in Australia, many however are racists because of ill-founded predigests, they have developed false notions based not on experience, but irrational fear of what others might bring to Australian society.

"many hate white or western people anyway, who would also state that we don't have any culture, whilst forcing me to accept bow to theirs." I refute that statement (see above). From my personal experience with refugees and ethnic groups in Sydney, that was never the case with the majority I interacted with, just the opposite in fact. Can you give any examples of that hate, publicly shaming Australians or forcing you to do anything against your will.

Your last paragraph I took as cynicism, that's what you want to believe, and that's that

Maybe the country does need more people, or maybe it doesn't who's to say.
We do have an ageing population with the boomers, who themselves need a sound healthcare system, and what about the kids, the education system is falling apart due to a lack of teachers.

Plenty of issues going on there, most importantly I can't just be selfish and think about my own feelings.
Boomers and kids deserve a fair go too.

Is it really a lack of people or is it a lack of good policies?
The government at least in part created this mess, by firing health care staff and teachers for not having vaccines.

Our leaders are supposed to lead their citizens to better outcomes.
Not lead the country and constituents off a cliff, like I see so many other leaders in the world doing right now.

Many people will never be able to afford their own homes, which is sad because it's a big country.

It's really poor form the quality of leaders these days.
Most care more about themselves and their own political futures than they do about the betterment the citizens, no matter what they say.
- Drunk on power for their own best interests and no-one elses

I want to start seeing some good policies, not more of the same half-baked crap we get from leaders that are no better than kindergarten kids.
Real leadership, forward thinking, sound fool-proofed polices that are going to make this nation a better place for all.

The obsession with population size is absurd. In 2020, a World Bank investigation found that small countries are richer per capita than large ones. There are many rich countries with populations of 10 million or less.

To name a few:

New Zealand 5 million
Switzerland 8 million
Sweden 10 million
Denmark 6 million
Norway 5 million
Finland 5 million,

none of them hard up.

The more people we take in, the poorer those already here become individually.

Dear Paul,

The history of this country is full of historically
recorded facts of the vast array of contributions that
refugees have made (and continue to make) to this
country and to Australian society. From science,
medicine, the arts, business, sports, education,
technology, literature, and the list goes on.
Look who started the wine industries, the fashion
industries, the innovations in science and medicine.

Research shows that people who've come in as refugees are
more likely to set up businesses than other groups.
They play an important role in facilitating the development
of trade and other links. They value the education of
their children very highly.

More young refugees study than other migrants and people
born in Australia. They contribute greatly to civic and
community life. They volunteer and promote community
development and engage in neighbourhood activities and
events.

The Refugee Council of Australia tells us that:

"By definition refugees are survivors. They have survived
because of their courage, ingenuity and creativity.
These are qualities that they bring to this country and
qualities that most of us value in Australia. If we
support them to recover from their persecution and rebuild
their lives in Australia - Australia will (and has) reap
the benefits."

Sidney Myer arrived in Melbourne by boat as a Russian
Jewish refugee without a visa, no English and almost
no money. His Department stores are an iconic part of
Melbourne. Then we have people like Sir Gustav Nossal,
Dr Karl Kruszelnicki, Harry Seidler, Frank Lowy, Tan Le,
Munjed Al Muderis, Sir Selman Cowen (Cohen) whose
grandparents were Jewish immigrants from Belarus,
Dr Victor Chang and so many, many, others to numerous
to list here.

There's no point whatsoever in arguing with dinosaurs
with whom you can't even agree on the basic historically
recorded facts. These people are illiterate not because
they can't read and write but because they can't learn,
unlearn, and re-learn. And in 21st Century Australia
they truly are irrelevant.

Hi Paul,

Well I'm on a roll and on Father's Day too.

So much comes to mind about the contributions of
migrants to this country. I can't possibly mention
them all - so I'll select just a few more.

"If you drive north out of Adelaide in South Australia there's
a point where the name of towns and streets start to have German
names and architecture. Every village's main street has a
German style bakery and signs tounting "wurst" or "wein."

"Where the grass covered rolling hills give way to vineyards
you've arrived in Barossa Valley. The pioneers who opened
up this area in the 1840s were German speaking Lutherans
fleeing from religious persecution in their Prussian homeland."

Lets also not forget the contribution Italians also made to
Australia's wine industry. Plus Lygon street in Carlton -
is Melbourne's key area - that Melbourne can thank Italians for
the famous coffee and cafe culture. And of course there
are other parts of all cities to which migrants have contributed
food wise - just think of all the China Towns, and multitudes
of shops and restaurants.

The roots of the Australian Ballet can be found in the
Borovansky Ballet a company founded in 1940 by Czech dancer
Edouard Borovansky.

Mount Kosciuszko was named by Polish explorer Paul Strzelecki
in 1840 after Polish cultural and political hero Tadeusz
Kosciusko. It's part of the Kosciuszko National Park which
includes other parks in the Australian Alps Mountain Range.

Olegas Truchanas, a Lithuanian born Tasmanian wilderness
explorer and photographer who undertook a numver of
different journeys into parts of Tasmania's South-West
previously not visited by Europeans. The stories and photos
from his journeys have since become part of Tasmania's
history.

I could go on and on. But I won't.

Enjoy your Father's Day!

Foxy you tell us The Refugee Council of Australia tells us that:

"By definition refugees are survivors. They have survived
because of their courage, ingenuity and creativity.

WRONG. They are the losers. They are the side who lost the civil war, or the political bun fight, & had to get out of their country. They are the very type we don't need today. There have been times when whole countries were overwhelmed by far superior strength, & deserved a second chance, but those days are gone. Most refugees lost in a nasty local fight.

You mention some extremely successful refugees, as if they have helped Oz people from the goodness of their heart. Again wrong. They have has successful business careers for their own benefit, & their own benefit is what they have worked for. Ask a few of their employees how nice many of them are to work for.

At this time of growing economic crisis, the last thing we need is more basically useless mouths to feed & house, when we can't even house our own.

"The more people we take in, the poorer those already here become individually".

What a totally ignorant statement. This guy just doesn't understand there is more to national wealth than simple population numbers. ttbn do you not consider education levels, stability of government, resources, investment etc. I assume if Bill Gates and Warren Buffett suddenly decided to immigrate to Australia, and invested their wealth here, and you disappeared to Ethiopia, Australia would be net worse off. Somehow I don't think so.

In Australia the most consistent and best performing state over the past 20 years for income and wealth generation is New South Wales, whilst the poorest is Tasmania, just ahead of South Australia. NSW has around 14 times the population of Tasmania and also has a higher population density. Why is it so?

Hi Hasbeen,

I must say that you definitely have surprised me.
I certainly did not expect such negativity from you.
And it does worry me because I have respected your
opinion in the past.

Coming from people who came to this country as refugees
and have built lives here I see things differently to
you. To me the earlier a country commits to protecting
refugees, the earlier they can move forward with
their lives without uncertainty blocking the way.

Most importantly accepting them protects the most precious
right of all - the right to live.

Turning our backs on refugees could in many cases be fatal for
them. Accepting refugees and providing the most basic
protections is in many cases life-saving.

By providing refugees with the right to work, to health,
to education - refugees can start productive lives in their
host countries. The faster they can integrate into the
labour force the faster they can become productive members
of society.

Most migration economists agree the presence of more
foreigners in the labour force does not hurt the locals.
Mainly because the locals and foreigners typically have a
different set of skills and compete for different jobs. A fact
corroborated using data on refugees settled in Australia.
Local workers often do better in the presence of more
migrants in the labour force.

Lastly, we know that migrants engage in entrepreneurship
at a much higher rates than locals which creates more jobs
every year. Refugees also play a fundamental role in
fostering international trade and investment.

Refugees can more the needle when it comes to integrating
their communities in global markets in robust ways.

There's much more that can be said. But for now this will
have to do.

Hassie, I hope that you can have a think about what's
coming out of your posts. It's not a good look.

Hasbeen,

Lets also not forget that when the nation needed workers
in rural industries and agriculture there was a shortage
of interest from the local (and still is) and the
government had to increase migration to solve the labour
shortage. Roads, dams, infrastructure construction, the
sugar cane industry and other rural productions were
saved and built by immigrants. Even in many professional
fields foreign names dominate.

Hasbeen,

Yes. The majority of the populations of these countries manage; the losers and users scuttle away like rats and fool the gullible virtue signallers in Australia. Selfish bludgers, praised by fools for feathering their own nests and leaving their own people to deal with whatever it is the bludgers are running away from. As you say, many of them who do make good exploit their own countrymen. I witnessed that sort of behaviour among migrants after WW2; and they were mainly 'civilised' Europeans. It's much worse now among non-European cultures, Non-Christian- principled.

The continuation of mass immigration for the of sake greed, and acceptance of 'refugees' stupidly believed to be more deserving of a new start than the majority they leave behind in the country they run from, will eventually bring Australia down.

On second thoughts: the Australians who go along with allowing these bludgers in are not gullible: they are fully-aware whiteants who, actually want to see their country on the skids for extreme Marxist/Communist ideology reasons. Fans of the Great Reset, stupid enough to think that they will be among the very few of the fascists on top of the brave new world.

Hi Foxy,

No good speaking the truth to a couple of geriatric rednecks, as we have here.

Hasbeen once declared on this forum that we should nuk Pakistan, and have the Australian Navy open fire on unarmed refugee boats! Happy to wipe out 200 million people, he now hides from those claims. Anyway, its only the macabre machinations of a silly old man who has never contributed to Australia's productivity, and like ttbn, now collects taxpayer funded welfare, a drain on society.

" the majority of these countries manage - the losers
and users scuttle away like rats..."

Lets look at the facts.

Much of Australia's population arrived here as immigrants
and many of those were refugees. People who were forced
to leave their homelands due to war and persecution.
They came seeking asylum from countries such as Iran, Iraq,
Afghanistan, Vietnam, Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia, and other
troubled lands including Holocaust survivors fleeing the Nazis
and also those fleeing the blood-stained Soviet regime.

They brought with them courage, and resilience.

Just one example is Professor Munjed Al Muderis who was born in
Iraq and fled the country following an incident in which he
refused to mutilate the ears of army soldiers under the orders
of Saddam Hussein. Prof Muderis was kep in an immigration
Centre in Western Australia. He has developed a new
generation of implant prosthetics and has given his
life to helping others.
He today is known as the most incredible and best
orthopedic surgeon worldwide. He continues to better the lives
of others.

There are undoubtedly many rats in Australia, many users,
many bludgers, many toxic no-hopers. But they are usually not
ones who contribute anything of value
to either society, their communities, or this
nation. All we can do
is feel sorry for
them and leave them to stew in their toxicity.

Paul, Thank You for raising this topic for discussion.

If we took the misinformation and lies out of
some of the posters on this forum, they'll shrink
to the size of one's hand. If we took the malice
out of some of them - they'd totally disappear.

"Most refugees lost in a nasty local fight."

They were probably the ones who backed the US puppet ruler in the botched protest / coup attempts, brought by the CIA and later the National Endowment for Democracy.
America conducts the coups / protests / overthrows, and when it goes pear-shaped the other western countries have to pick up the slack on the ones who need to leave.
- Just like a well-oiled machine.

Don't laugh, it's more truth than fiction.

Personally I always thought it was more like Europeans who didn't want to stay in Europe and fix the huge mess after the war, they'd rather relocate to a nice clean fresh country and not deal with the cost of 'post war' rebuilding of their own countries.

Also, you all do realise that immigration takes the best and brightest from the poor countries, so there's no way for the country to ever get any better.

Dear Paul,

«there is more to national wealth than simple population numbers. ttbn do you not consider education levels, stability of government, resources, investment etc.»

No "national wealth" for me, thanks - nationalism isn't my cup of tea.
While I don't believe I have a right to tell others (refugees or otherwise) where to live, I prefer they stay elsewhere, if possible.

What the state considers "education levels" are in fact indoctrination levels, subservience levels, comfortable-city-job levels - nothing to do with wisdom; What it considers "resources" are its exploitation and harassment; What it considers "investment" is the fueling of capital to make us suffer a more complicated life.

No, I don't want stability of government - I would rather have it toppled and be gone!

«I assume if Bill Gates and Warren Buffett suddenly decided to immigrate to Australia, and invested their wealth here, and you disappeared to Ethiopia, Australia would be net worse off.»

This "Australia" would not be better or worse off because it is an inanimate object, it does not care.

But you and I, the people who live in Australia, would be worse off if these two came over. They are not refugees, nor would they come here to enjoy their final years in peace and quiet - rather, they would bring the storm with them, more busy-busy rat-race run after luxuries, more technology to close in on us and they would disturb our own peace by flying around in noisy helicopters.

Should these two decide to come, they would be followed, bringing along others who are attracted by the smell of money, not by the peaceful lifestyle this continent can offer.

«In Australia the most consistent and best performing state over the past 20 years for income and wealth generation is New South Wales, whilst the poorest is Tasmania, just ahead of South Australia.»

That's NSW's ill fortune to be "performing". Have you considered at what cost? They have more income (more expenses too!) and wealth, yet they work and commute the longest hours, never getting to really enjoy the money they earn.

Hi Foxy,
"If we took the misinformation and lies out of
some of the posters on this forum, they'll shrink
to the size of one's hand. If we took the malice
out of some of them - they'd totally disappear."

America is like the plantation owner, and Britain is like the house slave.
France, Germany, Poland, they're like the field slaves.
Many of the others are like bottom-feeders. CARP.
The Baltic's well they are Chihuahua countries.
Tiny little ankle biters that talk and act-tough and think they're Rottweilers.

In the past refugees were sponsored because they were refugees !

Hi Foxy,

Mark Twain said; "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference”. The ones you refer to have no basic idea about refugees. Unfortunately the Hansonite want-a-be is racists to the core, as is Biggles, and others are just ignorant of reality. I don't include AC in the above, as I find him intelligent, but I'm not always in agreement with things he says.

Tiny little ankle biters that talk and act-tough and think they're Rottweilers.
Armchair Critic,
Akin to Academia vs everyday people who keep the wheels turning !

Hey Paul,
I once heard a similar saying:
'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'
I didn't know the proper version came from Mark Twain.
- Learn something new every day.

Hey Indyvidual,
Some of the Atifa crowd we're willing to have a bit of a go.
But the nutty professors wore masks and were frightened of being exposed and losing their tenure.
It's interesting how it's the liberals that think it's perfectly fine to steal from others if they need it, but conservatives generally don't think that way and have more values, it seems.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/shoplifting-tips-semper-floreat-university-of-queensland-stealing-cost-of-living/7c95cd4b-b571-44a6-8740-9152a3706639
Poorer working class people have to pay more with higher costs so these thieves can have better lives and believe themselves smarter than others.
I'd love to know the mentality of the person who defended the stealing, as though it was his right to do so.

People punting for a Big Australia clearly know nothing about immigration or economics. They are all Marxist dogma and piss and wind.

Hi Armchair Critic,

Talking about chihuahuas?
Just to set the record straight -
They never, ever, want to be rottweilers.

Anyhoo - Here's a few quotes:

They have no concept of how small they are and like
potato chips you can't have just one. Plus they
certainly have attitude. They can make it to the door
in 1.8 seconds. Can you?

They also stick their butts up in the air like they
just don't care.

And - the day that God created chihuahuas -
He sat down and smiled.

We also need to remember that size in many situations
doesn't always matter. Take for example - "Poor little
snowflake," the defining insult of 2016. The term
"snowflake," has been thrown around with abandon to
express generic disdain. However snowflakes can become
blizzards when they get together. They cause storms and
do much damage.

And lets talk about David and Goliath?

Hi Paul,

"An Australian artist Peter Seaton, has painted over
a street mural showing Ukrainian and Russian soldiers
hugging, after a community backlash."

"The Melbourne artwork advocated for a "peaceful solution"
between the two countries Seaton says. But some have
likened the huge (3 storey) mural to Russian propaganda."

There's more at the following link:

http://bbc.com/news/world-australia-62791089

However snowflakes can become
blizzards when they get together. They cause storms and
do much damage.
Foxy,
Yes, damage being the operative word ! The student magazine could have advocated doing a bit of work instead of stealing. Just goes to show the mentality of these pseudo-intellectuals !

Hi Foxy,

Thank you for the link, it is presented as a plea for peace in a troubled world. How can anyone describe that as "propaganda", if all combatants in all wars were to lay down their arms, and embrace each other in universal love, there would be no wars. I take a neutral stand as far as the war in Ukraine is concerned. No I correct that, I am on both sides, I am on the side of the grieving Russian mothers who have lost their sons to this abomination, I am also on the side of the Ukrainian people who are in despair for having lost their homes and children to this horror, there are many whose side we should be on.

Buffy Sainte Marie put it this way;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIN7aqDCE9E

Hi Yuyutsu,

I have been reading your posts on this topic, and I find somethings agreeable, but others, somewhat "out there", for want of a better description.

What I have presented is good people wanting to do good, there can be nothing wrong with that, although some find bad in good, and always will. You seem to find government inherently bad, I can't agree, but I don't find government inherently good either. If mankind was to reach a state of "ultimate heavenly nirvana" then yes government would be unnecessary, laws would be unnecessary, many things would be unnecessary. Unfortunately the human race is well short of that state of nirvana, and we are just going to have to plod along with what we've got for the time being, government included

Dear Paul,

Beautifully put.

When I first saw the mural my heart went out to both
sides. I too saw the message that the artist was
trying to convey. If soldiers everywhere put down
their arms and refused to kill - perhaps there could
be universal peace in the beautiful planet we all share.

I've just read The New York Times. " Britain's
Conservative Party members chose Ms Truss, the
hawkish Foreign Secretary over Rishi Sunak the
former Chancellor of the Exchequer. She takes over
a country in serious economic crisis."

Hi Indy,

Unfortunately we have 2.5 million economic refugees in Australia, we call them 'Aged Pensioners', and alas they will be a financial burden on the poor taxpayer for every more, unless of course we introduce my 'Seniors National Service' idea. Do you have any thoughts on a final solution to this vexing problem of aged welfare largesse.

p/s I was shocked with the Labor Governments announcement yesterday that there will be a whopping 4% increase in aged welfare payments! Can you believe that, 4 @&#*&#$ percent? Outrageous COMMUNISM if you ask me, I'm sure you will agree!

I have to say, as a part pensioner myself, that handing out money to pensioners because of some 'doing it tough' beatup by the media is a shocking piece of vote buying, and totally unnecessary.

Perhaps this hysteria about rising prices started in the eastern states, but where I live, we don't have $12 lettuces and all the other tripe put about by the media. Apart from petrol, which I don't use a lot of, there is no evidence that there should be any hardship.

Besides, people are still spending big. Like a lot of other scaremongering, the activist left wing media keeps barracking for Big Government to 'save' us.

Dear Paul,

«What I have presented is good people wanting to do good, there can be nothing wrong with that»

I have no doubt about the goodness of these people.
I just contested their being "involved in GRASS ROOTS PRIVATE community sponsorship of refugee families".

«You seem to find government inherently bad»

AS IT STANDS. It does not have to be so, but as it stands on this planet, governments force themselves and their laws on everyone who happens to live in the land, whether or not they consent. That is violence, and violence is inherently bad.

Paul,

The Nadesalingam family were illegal economic migrants and not refugees

Hi Yuyutsu,

"governments force themselves and their laws on everyone". I agree at times governments are excessive in their behaviour towards citizens, and there is much wrong with government. However, saying that I cannot divorce government from the people, or government by the people. Then there is the question of laws, and the need for ordered society, what is the alternative? Once you have authority in place, which government is by necessity, established authority, then enforcement of laws becomes mandatory. If you can offer a viable working alternative, I'm willing to listen.

"The Nadesalingam family were illegal economic migrants and not refugees"

Well SM, that was the general opinion among NAZI's, and the ruling of the Fascists Morrison government.

Paulnazi,

According to you all the judges that clearly decided that these illegals were not refugees were also Nazis?

Try not to be such an ignoramus. Genuine refugees should stay economic migrants should not.

Can you believe that, 4 @&#*&#$ percent?
Paul1405,
All just smoke screen tactics. It's to cover the much higher amounts going to the 'educated' who aren't actually contributing useful anything to society.
4% sounds a lot but it doesn't sound as much as $10,000/annum which might be a mere 4% in bureaudroid salaries.
I've stated too many times to remember here that we should reduce reduce salaries so wages don't need to go up & so become competitive again ! That goes for Welfare also. Old age Pension is a different scenario because it's neither wage nor welfare, it's self-funded investment unlike Superannuation which is commercial welfare subsidised by taxpayers !
Unless we can move away from that stupid "Growth" mentality the lower paid will never ever get a better deal. We need to concentrate on sustainability so as to bring manufacturing & investment taxes & employee wages back to our shores ! I only wish unions could think for the good of the whole Nation not just those who pay them for making a good living !

SM,

The judges only interpreting the laws of the Fascists Morrison government. The new Federal Immigration Minister, Andrew Giles, intervened to grant the Nadesalingam family permanent residency. I understand they are the wrong colour etc in your eyes, and not your cup of tea. So what!

Indy,

This myth you like to peddle; 'Aged welfare is not welfare', obviously such largesse is welfare, but since your "dole bludger" mentality doesn't allow for you to accept welfare, you concocted some nonsense that you are a special case, and not a welfare recipient. What can I say, well, taxpayer dollars goes into you bank account every fortnight, just like the dole. YOU paid for your pension is nonsense!

How often do we ask 'why do so many refugees speak fluent English?' or "how can they afford the thousands of dollars" to pay people smugglers? or even 'why do we describe some as economic refugees?' If we asked these questions we could find that the solution to our skilled migration problem. Refugees tend to be drawn from the elite of their societies - they are well educated and well trained. Some will be denied the ability to work in their profession and thus see no future for their children.
This is what make Refugees not a problem but the solution to a problem. If we want any evidence of that just look at the contribution the post war refugees and the post Vietnam refugees have made to this country. Why would these refugees be any different? Australia's prosperity has been built on people with the urge to create a better life for themselves and their children.
After the War Australia resisted bring in refugees - they only wanted British migrants that generation learnt an important lesson; one that we seem to have forgotten.

The "fascist" Morrison government. What a load of rot. The Morrison government tried to be as left wing, or Marxist,as Labor, and voters decided to go for the ones who did it better. Besides, there is no difference between fascism and communism, but the ignorant among us don't know that, merely parroting what their masters have drummed into their thick heads.

What is left of the Morrison government looks like being as useless as the Victorian opposition, so it's all downhill for Australia from now on. It will be interesting to see how the lefties go with nobody but Labor and the Greens to blame as everything falls apart.

In the Courier Mail today: 'Labor to introduce Bill to encourage Australian pensioners to downsize homes". A "potential new law", that only the Senate crossbench could block (and we know how 'up' Labor that mob is).

The idea is to replace people living in large homes, many for a long time, and happy to continue doing so, with young families - nothing on how more affordable it would be for the young families.

Whether that's 'communism' of 'fascism', it's a taste of the evils to come from Labor. I've already done my downsizing voluntarily, but the complacent drones need to sit up and take notice of what our new 'fasco-comm' government is up to if they liking living in their home of choice.

ttbn,

Soviet Communism and German National Socialism were branches of the same extremist tree, and they bore the same fruit, but on different branches. They hated each other, not because they were ideologically that different, but because they both were seeking radical controlling power through the proletariat. For one to succeed the other had to be liquidated, they could not coexist.

We are fortunate in Australia that our present circumstances, both economically and socially, prevents extreme radicalism establishing a foothold within society. That is not to say, a deterioration in social order would not give rise to such extremism.

Pensioner housing is a vexed question, we do have many single aged pensioners, supported through welfare living in 4 and 5 bedroom houses. I don't subscribe to the Murdoch gutter press, so I can't directly comment of their article, but given their general history, its most likely a beat up, to attack Labor. There is not the political will to force pensioners out of their abodes at this time.

Dear Paul,

«However, saying that I cannot divorce government from the people, or government by the people.»

I cannot cite (can you?) even one case in history where the people got up one morning and said: "let us have a state and a government".

The common scenario in the ancient world was that some greedy king/emperor raided new villages or towns and found it too difficult to [forcibly] collect their taxes because their inhabitants only bartered and had no administration or monetary system, thus the king appointed clerks to organise and streamline their economy, for his own taxes, not for the people, effectively annexing them to his state without asking their inhabitants.

Since then, the most ordinary people could do, at best, was to rebel when their king was weak and instead become the subjects of some other stronger king/regime. I know of no case where people could afford to say: "well, this experiment of having a state/government is not working, we are not happy, so let's end it".

Now when we speak of any organisation (and isn't society just that, an organisation?), one of the very first questions should be, "who is included?", "who are the members?", "in whose company are we to embark on this journey?". Naturally, one would like to travel with more-or-less like-minded people, not with absolute strangers with whom one shares no values, with whom one has no common aspirations.

Forcing one to be considered a part of a "society" and to abide by its internal rules, based merely on geography is just wrong! Everyone ought to have some space on this planet and just because one happens to park their body somewhere does not allow others to violate them.

[continued...]

[...continued]

«Then there is the question of laws, and the need for ordered society, what is the alternative?»

Voluntary-based societies.

Voluntary societies will in all likelihood be smaller, but they can still have their constitutions and laws according to the wishes of their actual members, who, remember, share together at least some values and goals.

«Once you have authority in place, which government is by necessity, established authority, then enforcement of laws becomes mandatory. If you can offer a viable working alternative, I'm willing to listen.»

What law-enforcement means, including the consequences of breaking laws, is to be defined separately by the people who form a society. Should someone later find these agreed laws draconian and unacceptable, it would then be easier to change them due to the smaller size, or otherwise to migrate away to the next valley where more acceptable laws possibly apply, or even, if living on a border, move one's home/property to the jurisdiction of the neighbouring society.

Nothing prevents voluntary societies, small as they may be, from forging cooperation agreements with other societies in whatever areas of life they agree on.

There is the possibility of people/families who live on their land without belonging to any bigger society. That is OK although they, in absence of any agreements, might find it difficult to travel anywhere outside their property. Should they live peacefully they should not be disturbed and should they create trouble (and I mean a real disturbance, rather than just failing to cooperate with the greed of their neighbours), then they can be treated like any other external enemy where a society may respond in self-defense, rather than in punishment (for breaking laws one never agreed to be subject to).

YOU paid for your pension is nonsense!
Paul1405,
Nonsense you say ? Well, when we worked we paid for the pensioners of our time just as they did for the pensioners of their time. And, just the younger now pay for us ! We're simply getting dividends for our contributions !
Your Superannuation on the other hand is fully funded by your former employer & our collective taxes.

Paul finally realises that Nazis and Communists are almost identical. This makes Paul (a member of the now defunct Aus communist party) a Nazi.

His worship of Putin and Xi shows that he still has hankerings for dictatorships and finds the gangreens the closest match.

SM,

Provide evidence I was ever a member of the "Australian Communist Party", you are a liar. You did admit on this forum you made a pilgrimage to Christchurch NZ to where the mass murderer Brenton Tarrant committed his heinous crimes. Do you now deny that?

Pauliar,

You mentioned years ago that you were a communist in your youth. So you are a liar.

SM,

I may have said, that in my youth I took an interest in "Communism", the girl I was more interested in was a member of the 'Spartacus League' (Trotskyest's) never joining myself, but I never said I was a member of the CPA, correctly known as the Communist Party of Australia, publishers of the Stalinist Tribune newspaper. Now provide evidence of your claim; "This makes Paul (a member of the now defunct Aus communist party)", otherwise admit you are a liar. I note you do not refute your claimed trip to Christchurch NZ after the massacre by Brenton Tarrant. I'm not sure what 'nick' you were hiding behind when you made that statement.

BTW,; In the 1970's I was invited to attend a Liberal Party branch meeting by some NAZI old fart, having attended, does that also make me a NAZI as well.

Paul,

You said that you were a communist in your youth, not that you thought about it.

Don't lie again.

Pauliar,

That you lied about me knowing your mate Tarrant makes you the liar. Me ignoring your lies is not affirmation.

Once again you are a liar and a fraud.

Hi Paul,

We both know that most people do a lot of things in their
youth that they don't as adults. Most people however
do learn and grow.

The difference is - if
those who haven't changed, or learned anything and not grown
mentally since their youth - show that they
are not literate - that is - able to learn, unlearn or
re-learn.

These people look upon those who do learn and
grow as threats - and they tend to call those they see
as threats by derogatory names - again showing their
inability to even enlarge their vocabulary.

I admire your patience to continue to respond to these
intellectual handicappers. You're a decent bloke.

Now SM, I couldn't have been a member of the CPA in the 1970's, I was a member of the ALP at that time, and its not permissible to be members of both at the same time. Its not difficult to determine where on the political spectrum you orbit, somewhere far right of Pluto.

Are you like John Howard, a devotee of 'Pig Iron' Bob's, and Howard is now the Godfather of the Liberal Party.

You must agree with Pig Iron's manifesto;

1. 10% unemployed
2. Exploit women as a cheap source of labour.
3. Admire Hitler and Nazism.
4. Reduce workers to "body hire", the term then for casual labour.
5. Be a devout racists with the 'White Australia Policy', we can only imagine what he thought of Aboriginals.
6. Be a a war coward in WWI, just like Howard with Vietnam.

At one time Menzies said no working man should own a home, he should be the property of landlords all his life, later he changed that notion to no working man should own a car.

Almost 10 years of Coalition government put into practice much of Pig Iron's philosophy.

10% unemployed
Paul1405,
How much of that is due to incompetent bureaudroids such as yourself ? How much of the housing problems are due to landlords such as yourself ?
Everyone who takes advantage of the insidious negative gearing is contributing to our economic woes !
No matter what Government is in power. Even the best administration fails if they only have selfish morons to rely on & to work with !

Greens policies,

20% unemployment by retrenching all coal and gas workers
Promote human trafficking
Lowering the age of consent to 5
Use children for labour
promote using candles for lighting
"natural" or Do-it-yourself healthcare
Banning smoking and alcohol,
Legalising cannabis and hard drugs,

Have I missed anything

SM,

All I say is in the historical quotes of Robert Menzies, you are spruiking your usual extremist propaganda.

The old Queen is dead, you must be sad.

Paul,

You lie so often that no one can believe you. I tried to find any reference to this and there is nothing on the net on any of your claims.

My claims have more basis.

P.S. I don't give a hoot about the royal family.

SM,

If Professor Google can't help you, maybe you should try reading a book or two. Are you one of those who believes if Professor Google doesn't know, it mustn't be so. BTW You wont find anything on the subject in The Murdoch Gutter Press you are so devoted to.

'Menzies In His Own Words' by David Roberts is a good book.

A shocking suggestion, maybe you should consider joining a Library, they have books for chaps just like you, old blokes with an IQ of a slug, try; "Bill and Ben the Flower Pot Men" it has great pics just for you, no reading ability required.

Now where do you suggest I check your nonsense about the Greens?

Greens aren't conservationists, they're tossing parasites ! Why test Brandt by asking him to run a chook raffle on a Saturday ?

Pauliar,

Still no link. I guess that you still can't prove squat.

SM,

I gave you a book to read, and a suggestion to join a library.

Menzies on Nazi Germany;

"[The] abandonment by the Germans of individual liberty and of the easy and pleasant things of life has something rather magnificent about it … they have erected the state, with Hitler as its head, into a sort of religion which produces spiritual exaltation that one cannot but admire." – Robert Menzies

After Hitler invaded Russia in 1941, Menzies demanded the outlawing of communism in Australia.

The Greens Party in Germany have absolutely stuffed the country.

Anna Baerbock "I give the promise to the people of Ukraine, we stand with you as long as you need us, no matter what my German voters think" [Video in article]
http://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/support-for-ukraine-no-matter-what-my-german-voters-think/

Some say that Germany is looking at 65% de-industrialisation (and the UK could be almost just as bad).
The entire German industry was built around the cheap energy it got from Russian gas.
Now that it's gone, they cant possibly be as competitive as they once were and won't recover.
Some say the Greens have done it on purpose, deliberately to force the country down a greener path.
Here's a really great 10 minute discussion on it:

Habeck captains Germany towards economic disaster, no chance of turning back
http://youtu.be/FrVMJ8ymKCk

Price of war: UK and EU throw $500 billion at energy subsidies
http://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/08/business/liz-truss-energy-price-cap-europe/index.html
"The UK plan could cost as much as £150 billion ($172 billion), analysts said. Add that to recent similar announcements by Germany, Austria and other EU governments, and the region's bill for drawing the sting of rising prices is already more than €500 billion ($500 billion)."

- I've even heard discussions of a RAND Corporation paper where the US wanted to deindustrialise Germany and this was part of their plan, but I can't find the link / info right now.

Germany has ‘stupidest government’ in Europe – MP

Left-wing politician Sahra Wagenknecht slammed her government for causing a ‘fatal’ economic war with Russia

Germany’s government is the “stupidest” in Europe for managing to embroil itself in a full-blown “economic war” with its top energy supplier, Russia, left-wing politician Sahra Wagenknecht said on Thursday.

Speaking in the Bundestag, the former co-chair of the party Die Linke (The Left) urged an end to anti-Russian sanctions and the resignation of the country’s vice chancellor and economy minister, Robert Habeck.

While describing the ongoing conflict in Ukraine as a “crime,” Wagenknecht said the anti-Russian sanctions are “fatal” for Germany itself. With energy prices out of control, the country’s economy will soon “just be a reminder of the good old days,” the MP warned, as she urged canceling the restrictions and engaging in talks with Russia.

“We really have the stupidest government in Europe,” she told the parliament, calling for Habeck to resign.
http://www.rt.com/news/562525-germany-russia-economic-war/

Pauliar,

Your quote is from the communist (the only people worse than Nazis) rag "the red flag" not from any other source I can find.

I can only conclude that this drivel is where you sourced your information. I don't believe that you ever read the book you supposedly quoted.

You lie so often, so consistently that I don't believe a word you say.

You have proven nothing.

SM,

I can't be held responsible if you are prevented from reading "unapproved literature". In the 1930's Menzies like many Conservative politicians was an admirer of Hitler. If the NAZI's had won the war its possible they would have installed Menzies as Australian PM, a Vidkun Quisling type character. If so I'm sure Menzies would have assisted with cleaning out of Toorak in Melbourne, and Vaucluse in Sydney of "undesirables".

Pauliar,

Once again you are lying through your teeth. You cannot support anything you claim.

Just saw on the News that Texas & another refugee targeted State started to take the refugees to the northern States.
It's amazing but totally predictable that the affluent do-gooder Democrats are now bleating how un-American this is. It didn't seem to be un-American when the Democrats made the southern States deal with the flood of refugees !