In a worrying move on civil liberties, about 50 NSW police raided a property in Sydney where a group of climate activists (Blockade Australia) were legitimately located. According to the groups defence lawyers, the activists noticed strangers on the property on Sunday morning, they confronted these strangers and demanded they identify themselves and their reasons for trespassing, the intruders failed to do either. The then unidentified people got into an unmarked car, which was then surrounded by the activists, who were attempting to understand who the strangers were, and their reasons for being unlawfully on the property.

A lawyer for the activists said police had no legal basis for being on the property, they failed to identify themselves or their reasons for being there. This is an example of police overreach, a case of police exceeding their powers, and anyone who values civil liberties should be concerned.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jun/19/nsw-police-feared-for-their-lives-during-raid-on-climate-protesters-says-assistant-commissioner

Blockade Australia climate activists attacked police and slashed police vehicle tyres yesterday. Police feared for their lives, as they were pushed and shoved by the climate thugs.

That's hilarious. These dills spend their life invading public and private property in the name of saving Gaia, get pissed off when their 'property' is threatened.

Pot...met kettle.

Both sides are violent and disgusting.

At what point does activism become extremism?

I think we have a real problem in society.
It's really as dumb as fighting over which is better
Ford V's Holden? AFL V's Rugby League?

Why can't I love coal for giving me a life above that of a neanderthal?
- And at the same time -
Why can't I also love practices that are better for the environment?

Tony Rinaudo is an Australian, known in Africa as 'The Forest Maker'
http://www.worldvision.com.au/global-issues/work-we-do/poverty/forest-maker

How the Sahara Desert is Turning into a Farmland Oasis - GREENING THE DESERT PROJECT
http://youtu.be/QXQrvT23rPw

Why cant we support the benefits of both industrialism and environmentalism at the same time?
Why does everything have to be divisive and exclusive?

Think about a common garden hoe or a mattock -
You need these tools to help in the garden;
- But you need a furnace to make them.

Some countries have different natural resources.
Some are better for agricultire, others for oil, and coal and mining, Some coastal nations better for fishing.
Our country is good for mining, but we shouldn't just rely on that.

I don't believe we should cut off our noses to spite our faces.
We seem to go from one extreme to the other and it's a system that doesn't serve us well.
I think climate targets are unrealistic.
It shouldn't be a one size fits all argument,
I don't like our country to be dictated to by foreigners.
Good ideas should be shared, but no sovereign nation should be dictated to.

These people aren't activists they're extremists.
We need better policies, not grind the country to a halt and take us back to the neanderthal age.
We can't move in a direction that is better for the environment if we don't have energy security.

I see that the pedogreens true colours are showing as violent thugs.

Dear Critic,

Please don't dilute and divert this conversation into a discussion about the environment and energy.

The point is that these people ("Blockade Australia") are violent, they block the path of ordinary people going about their life, their specific views are not relevant.

Same for the violent police who breaks into their castle. By doing so, the intruding police and their noisy helicopter also disturbed the sleep of thousands of neighbours and their children, disturbed the peace of those who rose early to pray and meditate, disturbed the couples who were making love at the time, intruded on the privacy of people in their own backyards, disturbed their animals too.

Both sides are to be condemned.

Hi Yuyutsu,

"Please don't dilute and divert this conversation into a discussion about the environment and energy."

I'm sorry if I did but I feel the points I made were relevant.
Maybe the police were also out of line
(I don't know their specific reasons that private property)
- but I hear these people are planning to grind Sydney to a halt next Monday.

Hi Yuyutsu,

"The point is that these people ("Blockade Australia") are violent, they block the path of ordinary people going about their life, their specific views are not relevant."

I don't agree with all the actions of BA, and I don't support any kind of violence, even if I agree with what motivates the protesters.

Regardless, the coppers must stick within the law. This is a clear case of copper overreach.

You could apply the same logic to the French Resistance in WWII. France had capitulated and surrendered, the legitimate government was that of the Nazi's. The actions of the FR in blowing up trains etc, was in contravention of French law at the time. Agree?

What Yuyustu & others have ignored is at the start of the incident
the Police got into a car to depart, as requested, ready to leave.
The activists it seems realised if they obstructed the police from
leaving it would cause a real incident and reinforcements to arrive.

In other words the incident was generated by the activists.

Not so Bazz, the coppers were trespassing and failed to identity themselves, and the folks on the property had every right to take reasonable steps to detain them and make a citizen arrest for unlawful trespass. Its the coppers who should be fronting the magistrate.

Pauliar,

From what I understand the property that these fwits were occupying was not their property and so the police were not trespassing and the louts had no right to try and detain (kidnap) or assault the police. Do you support the 2 of them that had guns?

Secondly, comparing these thugs to the French resistance is ludicrous. You are simply saying that if you don't like the law you don't need to obey it.

These turds should be locked up.

shonky,

For someone who knows nothing, you claim to know everything. The days of police verbals, and planting of evidence are gone. No more going before the beak with "I charged him with assault sir, he kept ramming his face into my fist, sir". I seen Chief Constable Clod from the NSW coppers on TV carrying on about these people, the fact is the coppers were unlawfully on the property, End of story.

p/s Do you make it up as you go, or is it written by the Murdoch gutter press for you?

I've been thinking about this:

I don't know if the police had a specifically obtained warrant to be doing surveillance as part of an official operation;
- But what I am fairly sure of is that the protesters, whist having a right to protest, don't have a right to glue themselves to roads or park on train tracks to stop coal trains as shown on their website.

And so, given that they were convening in a group working out their plans to prepare for events in which they PLANNED to break laws,
- Then cops may have had reasonable cause to put them under surveillance, based on their own history of breaking laws in their protests.

- Also keep in mind what our govt has done to others in the same kind of category say for example bikies anti association laws and bail conditions preventing association with other co-offenders.

Point being you have a right to protest, but you don't have a right to break laws in conducting your protest, and gathering for the purposes of planning when you intend to break laws is a reasonable cause for being put under surveillance.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-30/queensland-reworks-anti-bikie-laws-toughest-crime-laws/8077572

"They replace existing anti-association provisions with a new consorting offence, making it illegal for a person to consort with two or more convicted offenders after being warned by police not to do so.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the new laws would give Queensland the toughest organised crime laws in the country."

If protesters are gathering or associating with other like-minded people specifically for the purposes of breaking laws, then is there any reason why they shouldn't be held to the same standards?

Point being I believe it's perfectly fine to gather and protest, that's a part of democracy and free society;
But is it not a completely different issue if they gather with an intended purpose of breaking laws whilst protesting?

Hi AC,

I believe this to be a clear case of over reach by the coppers. At times Blockade Australia engage in protest that I for one, may agree with the motive, but not the action. This is not what this is about, its not about the actions of the people of BA, but rather the actions of the coppers. Civil liberties is something we must guard closely, even if at times it means sticking up for someone you may not agree with. Its easy to extrapolate all sorts of things from an event, its easy to turn a blind eye to those you don't agree with, its easy for the coppers to put a story across in justification. It may be radical environmental protesters today, but tomorrow it could be peaceful church goers, be very careful in supporting this kind of police action, you don't know where it can end up.

Pauliar,

Another bunch of lies from you. You keep claiming without any evidence that the police were unlawfully on the property or that the blockade thugs were lawfully on the property, and that the thugs were arrested when no crime had been committed. In any country vandalising a police vehicle and assaulting police is a crime.

Hi Paul1405,
I've been vocal enough about my feelings towards climate change agendas in that I'm not against doing things that are better for the environment but I don't support being dictated to by foreigners.
That's my position there.

As far as protests are concerned, I support the right to protest;
- even if I personally think the things people are protesting against are silly.

I may not agree with what they say or do, but I do support free expression and the right to dissent.

That said there's protesting the right way, and then there's protesting in a way that deliberately sets out to break laws and harm others including our national interest.

If you organise a group of people to park cars on train tracks or glue themselves to roads in order to get attention to your cause, then that's breaking the law, and gathering on mass for the specific purposes of doing so.

They shouldn't have any more protections than anyone else.

Take this for example:
Furious drivers physically drag activists off a busy highway
http://youtu.be/fUG-mjZV46A

Is this guy in the wrong for removing people from the road.
He might end up in court himself for doing so, yet there may have been people who were on the way to hospital with a pregnant woman or a sick elderly person who needed medical attention, or even an ambulance blocked from getting to others in an emergency.
- Yet when police arrive they will arrest those people themselves, right?

What about when they park on train tracks?
http://www.muswellbrookchronicle.com.au/story/7504066/reinforced-car-used-to-block-coal-trains-near-newcastle-police/
Isn't this against the law?

So if they are gathering with an intent to break laws, then surveillance by police isn't an overreach, its warranted.

I remember as a kid I used to hop off the train and jump the tracks to avoid walking over the ramp or overpass, but it was clearly stated that doing so risked a $2400 fine, if they got me on camera, and did issue me with a fine there wouldn't be any way I could defend my actions.

It seems to me these people are gathering specifically to organise themselves in a manner that breaks laws, then try to use the system in a way that reduces their culpability, and gets donations to pay their legal defense and fines and they keep doing the same stuff.

I'm not against protesting, or gathering to protest, but gathering to engage in civil disobedience that includes deliberately breaking laws,
Well I think their needs to be clear guidelines.

In the same way you could target a bikie group, these protestors can simply change the name of their organisation and keep doing what they are doing.
I'd enact laws that punish them the same as anyone else when they break laws, give bail conditions that prevent them from associating with other members of a group, label the groups who willfully organise for the purposes of breaking laws as unlawful - giving much bigger fines to organisers and arrest anyone who identifies as a member of the group and/or continues to engage in this type of behavior, and give jail time to repeat offenders.
- No different to anyone else.

If someone's mum dies in an ambulance when a road is blocked, these people should be sued for damages.
If they prevent people getting to work they should be sued as a class action for lost wages.
If they stop a business from conducting business their should be sued for lost business income.

I want to again stress that I'm not against people engaging in a right to protest or their right to free expression and a right to dissent things they oppose.

But if you continue to protest in a way that willfully breaks laws in the commission of your protest, or you encourage others to do the same, and you repeat offend then you go to jail and lose the right to be part of ANY protest for a certain length of time.

It may seem like an over-reach or denial of the right to free expression and dissent but breaking the law also requires a response that acts to prevent them from repeat offending.

Look here - they do dumb stuff and then try to gain sympathy by claiming cops treated them unfairly.
http://twitter.com/tradbritgroup/status/1540655665382817792

I think the cops should've just started punching them in the face,
Let's see how quick they would tear their own hands off the road to prevent a punch in the face.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The problem is ultimately that these people think that they can't enact the changes they want in society unless they break laws, but as we've seen they can get people elected that support their green initiatives and points of view.
- there's a right and wrong way to do things.

Is I originally stated, when does protesting become extremism?
You shouldn't be allowed to organise protests with a specific intent to break laws.

"So if they are gathering with an intent to break laws, then surveillance by police isn't an overreach, its warranted."

Most of what you said AC is "before the fact", at the time of this incident these people were not engaging in criminal acts of protest at all, but had a legitimate right themselves to be on the property. Yes the coppers do have the right to conduct surveillance, but it must be done within the law. Regardless of the previous history of these people the coppers have no right to take the law into their own hands, and then claim they were doing so, so they can enforce the law.

shonky, I understand 'Blockade Australia" have a legitimate tenancy on the land they were occupying, and it is the unidentified coppers in a unmarked police vehicle who without a warrant had unlawfully entered the property, and then engaged in illegal activity. As an extreme far right totalitarian supporter yourself, you are not going to side with those you see as left wing radicals.

p/s, they should have had you tag along, you could have been dressed in your snappy black uniform goosestepping right behind the Gestapo coppers.

Hi Paul1405,
The moment you posted this article after the event occurred I went to their website, and looked at what they had done previously;
- the videos they posted on their homepage.

I can't find the videos they posted of parking across train tracks,
- but there's a photo of them doing so in this article
http://www.muswellbrookchronicle.com.au/story/7504066/reinforced-car-used-to-block-coal-trains-near-newcastle-police/
- and that's not the car I saw in the video

Go through the videos Paul and tell me how many laws are broken here?
I could go through every single video.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-zXeuBS7WV5wJGp64YiD1g/videos

First one is an indigenous woman and they are begging for money
http://youtu.be/kzCn67bRdmY
- not that there's anything wrong with that, but they are using indigenous to claim sympathy for their cause.
Here they've parked on train tracks, on top of trains and themselves invaded private property to the coal mines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3gfPedzZpU
Dont you think its hypocritical when they claim their rights have been trampled on -but themselves don't care about others private property?
All of these videos they are on private property
On trains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxSC3WwDF6c
laying on train tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nc6Rk6mo3Y
shutting down machinery
http://www.youtube.com/shorts/J9w8px3JUG0
This ones absailing off a train bridge and talking about 'the ones who came before her to educate her'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwc-o8UmG8
- she means how to break laws?
suspended over train lines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEdzdxYEeVs
On trains and rail / private property again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgisj66iiM
here one parked on train tracks and wanting to shut down the sydney harbour bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX3Tz5UuQm4

Just about every single one of these videos they are breaking laws
- yet they get to continue to keep breaking laws, and claim their rights are being trampled upon when someone steps of their property
- and attack people (like police) when they do
didn't they attack police

Acting Assistant Commissioner Paul Dunstan said police involved "feared for their lives" as they were "shoved, pushed, jostled".
http://www.9news.com.au/national/nsw-police-attacked-during-raid-in-sydneys-northwest/7a5c3882-a9db-45dc-92f7-57a0dde0ee04

What happens if I act towards police like that?
There's a clear history of them breaking laws themselves
- then they expect to be protected by laws and claim victimhood.

- And once again, I want to say I'm not against doing things that are better for the environment, even though I think the climate change agenda is grossly overstated at best and geared towards ceding our sovereignty to foreign bureaucrats.

Let me tell you a different story, had a friend stop by yesterday and she was telling me her 10year old boy wouldn't clean his room up, and wouldn't do as he was told and she was all stressed and wound up about it.

I said "We're adults, there's plenty of ways to screw with them if you want to. You don't have to lose your composure or smack them"

I said don't ever smack them, first you make him do push-ups, it gives you time to calm down and come up with much better punishments.

She said he likes playing on my brothers gaming console.
- I said wipe all his game saves so he loses all his game progress and has to start again.

She said he didn't want to clean up his room, I said dont get mad about it, give him 2 days to clean it up himself but tell him if you have to go in there and clean it up bag everything up into a garbage bag so he has nothing, bare empty room and take it over to a friends place temporarily, tell him you took it all to the tip.

If he gets mad about tries to keep pushing your buttons then I said its your job to feed him, but there's no reason you cant go and buy yourself KFC and say hell no, Im not sharing this with you, you can have baked beans and eggs on toast.
And by the way, I spent your allowance on this KFC
Buy a big bucket of cadbury chocolate ice cream, cover it in lollies sprinkles marshmallows the whole works and say nar sorry, zooper dooper for you.

She admitted that at one time she asked him for 2 weeks to put his bike away or it would get stolen and when he didn't she took it to a friends and said it had gotten stolen.

I said don't let them wind you up or lose your composure, he'll only keep seeing how far he can push you, you'll end up some nasty frazzled woman with all your hair falling out.
Don't let him think he can get under your skin.

The government should do exactly the same thing with these climate protestors.
Figure out punishments that dissuade them from doing it.
I'd be dishing out community service to anyone of these climate protesters.
They'd be spending 100 hours clearing land with a whipper snipper and knocking in star pickets to build a solar farm of second hand solar panels.
They whinge about not caring about the environment, their punishment would be doing thing that help our society and the environment by halping actually move towards renewables.
I'd screw with them, no fines, community service or jail instead.
What happened to good behaviour bonds, suspended sentenses, etc.
Don't do the community service, then its a breach of a correctional service order and they go to jail.
Repeat offenders breach their suspended sentences and they go to jail.

You know why I'd be an asshole to them and not lose a moments sleep?
They can either be a part of the solution or they're a part of them problem.
We can't move towards better ways of doing things if our country goes broke and we don't have energy security to begin with.

$2400 in fines for going on train tracks, thats a decent amount of community service.
I wouldn't give repeat offenders the option of paying fines, they would be sentenced to community service.

- They can't whinge about others going on their private property repeatedly when they are organising to do exactly the same thing...
If I was the judge, I'd laugh at them and they'd be off to community service, if they argue when I laugh in their faces at their stupidity, comtempt of court and more community service.

Now I don't have the power to do these things, and no-one in the country is going to see our discussion, but you know they are organising for the purposes of planning to break laws, and you know I'm right, they shouldn't expect to claim their rights are infringed when people go on their property, when they organise for the specific purposes of doing the exact same thing.

They shouldn't be stopping traffic, people might be on the way to hospital. The cops will only drag them off the road lawfully anyway.

I'd have all of these people spending hours upon hours of community service, building infrastructure for renewables.
They can dig holes for small wind turbines and CCTV, if they try to steal or damage and of the work I'll be planning for them to do.
I'd make their efforts futile and actually help us not hinder us in a path forward.

Watch this, aha my laugh for them morning.
http://twitter.com/atexan575/status/1540485522744819713

At least the police appear to be acting less partisan in NSW than in other states such as Victoria.

If "Blockade Australia" vandalized a vehicle that is perhaps beyond the rights to detain under citizens arrest laws- why didn't they just take down the number plate- they can then obtain the plate details. If someone is on foot it can be difficult to identify a suspect so perhaps different rules of detention apply.

In these situations I understand that things can get a bit out of control.

It's interesting that BA is seemingly aware of the possibility that their organisation could become infiltrated- and take steps to prevent it- not that not wanting to be infiltrated is illegal.

I'm sure that Paul1405 would be ecstatic with the raid if the organisation being raided was on the Traditionalist side of politics- whether there was sufficient reasonable cause or not.

Fascinating.

Remember Paul1405's views about George Pell

As I said right at the beginning of this thread.

"I think we have a real problem in society.
It's really as dumb as fighting over which is better
Ford V's Holden? AFL V's Rugby League?

Why can't I love coal for giving me a life above that of a neanderthal?
- And at the same time -
Why can't I also love practices that are better for the environment?

These people aren't activists they're extremists.
We need better policies, not grind the country to a halt and take us back to the neanderthal age.
We can't move in a direction that is better for the environment if we don't have energy security."

Sorry Paul, but I'm starting to think maybe the only way the Greens to gain votes is to create and capitalise on disunity, not on genuinely good policy.

It's no wonder I spent years saying democracy is flawed.
What's better a 2 party system that never achieves anything;
Or a 1 party system that does?

But I don't want some weird system of total control by the state, I just want good polices
Sadly, no-one in this country seems able to deliver.
Makes me wonder what my Anzac forefathers fought for.
That's what I think.

CM,

"Remember Paul1405's views about George Pell"

My view of Pell was when he was found guilty, he was guilty, when he was found innocent he was innocent, nothing I was going to lose sleep over. I am a firm believer in the rule of law. End of story. Your attempt at a snide innuendo from that comment typifies the type of person you are.

On another thread your were championing the forced extermination of 97% of the worlds population. If you got your way it would make you the worlds greatest mass murderer par excellence. Stalin and Hitler would be squabbling in hell, "look at this GUY, he's outdoing US!" But fortunately its only another one of your fantasies and fortunately for the rest of us, the 97% who are not within your ideal, being part of the Aryan race, it will never come to fruition.

Armchair Critic- I think your last reflection is positive- As the Bible says- seek and you'll find.