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The Forum > General Discussion > Police Raid Without A Crime Being Committed

Police Raid Without A Crime Being Committed

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So if they are gathering with an intent to break laws, then surveillance by police isn't an overreach, its warranted.

I remember as a kid I used to hop off the train and jump the tracks to avoid walking over the ramp or overpass, but it was clearly stated that doing so risked a $2400 fine, if they got me on camera, and did issue me with a fine there wouldn't be any way I could defend my actions.

It seems to me these people are gathering specifically to organise themselves in a manner that breaks laws, then try to use the system in a way that reduces their culpability, and gets donations to pay their legal defense and fines and they keep doing the same stuff.

I'm not against protesting, or gathering to protest, but gathering to engage in civil disobedience that includes deliberately breaking laws,
Well I think their needs to be clear guidelines.

In the same way you could target a bikie group, these protestors can simply change the name of their organisation and keep doing what they are doing.
I'd enact laws that punish them the same as anyone else when they break laws, give bail conditions that prevent them from associating with other members of a group, label the groups who willfully organise for the purposes of breaking laws as unlawful - giving much bigger fines to organisers and arrest anyone who identifies as a member of the group and/or continues to engage in this type of behavior, and give jail time to repeat offenders.
- No different to anyone else.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 26 June 2022 11:59:52 AM
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If someone's mum dies in an ambulance when a road is blocked, these people should be sued for damages.
If they prevent people getting to work they should be sued as a class action for lost wages.
If they stop a business from conducting business their should be sued for lost business income.

I want to again stress that I'm not against people engaging in a right to protest or their right to free expression and a right to dissent things they oppose.

But if you continue to protest in a way that willfully breaks laws in the commission of your protest, or you encourage others to do the same, and you repeat offend then you go to jail and lose the right to be part of ANY protest for a certain length of time.

It may seem like an over-reach or denial of the right to free expression and dissent but breaking the law also requires a response that acts to prevent them from repeat offending.

Look here - they do dumb stuff and then try to gain sympathy by claiming cops treated them unfairly.
http://twitter.com/tradbritgroup/status/1540655665382817792

I think the cops should've just started punching them in the face,
Let's see how quick they would tear their own hands off the road to prevent a punch in the face.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The problem is ultimately that these people think that they can't enact the changes they want in society unless they break laws, but as we've seen they can get people elected that support their green initiatives and points of view.
- there's a right and wrong way to do things.

Is I originally stated, when does protesting become extremism?
You shouldn't be allowed to organise protests with a specific intent to break laws.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 26 June 2022 12:10:50 PM
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"So if they are gathering with an intent to break laws, then surveillance by police isn't an overreach, its warranted."

Most of what you said AC is "before the fact", at the time of this incident these people were not engaging in criminal acts of protest at all, but had a legitimate right themselves to be on the property. Yes the coppers do have the right to conduct surveillance, but it must be done within the law. Regardless of the previous history of these people the coppers have no right to take the law into their own hands, and then claim they were doing so, so they can enforce the law.

shonky, I understand 'Blockade Australia" have a legitimate tenancy on the land they were occupying, and it is the unidentified coppers in a unmarked police vehicle who without a warrant had unlawfully entered the property, and then engaged in illegal activity. As an extreme far right totalitarian supporter yourself, you are not going to side with those you see as left wing radicals.

p/s, they should have had you tag along, you could have been dressed in your snappy black uniform goosestepping right behind the Gestapo coppers.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 26 June 2022 3:27:39 PM
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Hi Paul1405,
The moment you posted this article after the event occurred I went to their website, and looked at what they had done previously;
- the videos they posted on their homepage.

I can't find the videos they posted of parking across train tracks,
- but there's a photo of them doing so in this article
http://www.muswellbrookchronicle.com.au/story/7504066/reinforced-car-used-to-block-coal-trains-near-newcastle-police/
- and that's not the car I saw in the video

Go through the videos Paul and tell me how many laws are broken here?
I could go through every single video.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-zXeuBS7WV5wJGp64YiD1g/videos

First one is an indigenous woman and they are begging for money
http://youtu.be/kzCn67bRdmY
- not that there's anything wrong with that, but they are using indigenous to claim sympathy for their cause.
Here they've parked on train tracks, on top of trains and themselves invaded private property to the coal mines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3gfPedzZpU
Dont you think its hypocritical when they claim their rights have been trampled on -but themselves don't care about others private property?
All of these videos they are on private property
On trains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxSC3WwDF6c
laying on train tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nc6Rk6mo3Y
shutting down machinery
http://www.youtube.com/shorts/J9w8px3JUG0
This ones absailing off a train bridge and talking about 'the ones who came before her to educate her'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwc-o8UmG8
- she means how to break laws?
suspended over train lines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEdzdxYEeVs
On trains and rail / private property again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgisj66iiM
here one parked on train tracks and wanting to shut down the sydney harbour bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX3Tz5UuQm4

Just about every single one of these videos they are breaking laws
- yet they get to continue to keep breaking laws, and claim their rights are being trampled upon when someone steps of their property
- and attack people (like police) when they do
didn't they attack police

Acting Assistant Commissioner Paul Dunstan said police involved "feared for their lives" as they were "shoved, pushed, jostled".
http://www.9news.com.au/national/nsw-police-attacked-during-raid-in-sydneys-northwest/7a5c3882-a9db-45dc-92f7-57a0dde0ee04

What happens if I act towards police like that?
There's a clear history of them breaking laws themselves
- then they expect to be protected by laws and claim victimhood.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 27 June 2022 10:01:18 AM
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- And once again, I want to say I'm not against doing things that are better for the environment, even though I think the climate change agenda is grossly overstated at best and geared towards ceding our sovereignty to foreign bureaucrats.

Let me tell you a different story, had a friend stop by yesterday and she was telling me her 10year old boy wouldn't clean his room up, and wouldn't do as he was told and she was all stressed and wound up about it.

I said "We're adults, there's plenty of ways to screw with them if you want to. You don't have to lose your composure or smack them"

I said don't ever smack them, first you make him do push-ups, it gives you time to calm down and come up with much better punishments.

She said he likes playing on my brothers gaming console.
- I said wipe all his game saves so he loses all his game progress and has to start again.

She said he didn't want to clean up his room, I said dont get mad about it, give him 2 days to clean it up himself but tell him if you have to go in there and clean it up bag everything up into a garbage bag so he has nothing, bare empty room and take it over to a friends place temporarily, tell him you took it all to the tip.

If he gets mad about tries to keep pushing your buttons then I said its your job to feed him, but there's no reason you cant go and buy yourself KFC and say hell no, Im not sharing this with you, you can have baked beans and eggs on toast.
And by the way, I spent your allowance on this KFC
Buy a big bucket of cadbury chocolate ice cream, cover it in lollies sprinkles marshmallows the whole works and say nar sorry, zooper dooper for you.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 27 June 2022 10:17:19 AM
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She admitted that at one time she asked him for 2 weeks to put his bike away or it would get stolen and when he didn't she took it to a friends and said it had gotten stolen.

I said don't let them wind you up or lose your composure, he'll only keep seeing how far he can push you, you'll end up some nasty frazzled woman with all your hair falling out.
Don't let him think he can get under your skin.

The government should do exactly the same thing with these climate protestors.
Figure out punishments that dissuade them from doing it.
I'd be dishing out community service to anyone of these climate protesters.
They'd be spending 100 hours clearing land with a whipper snipper and knocking in star pickets to build a solar farm of second hand solar panels.
They whinge about not caring about the environment, their punishment would be doing thing that help our society and the environment by halping actually move towards renewables.
I'd screw with them, no fines, community service or jail instead.
What happened to good behaviour bonds, suspended sentenses, etc.
Don't do the community service, then its a breach of a correctional service order and they go to jail.
Repeat offenders breach their suspended sentences and they go to jail.

You know why I'd be an asshole to them and not lose a moments sleep?
They can either be a part of the solution or they're a part of them problem.
We can't move towards better ways of doing things if our country goes broke and we don't have energy security to begin with.

$2400 in fines for going on train tracks, thats a decent amount of community service.
I wouldn't give repeat offenders the option of paying fines, they would be sentenced to community service.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 27 June 2022 10:27:17 AM
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