Newspoll shows that over 50%of Australians claim to want 100% renewable energy by 2050. Only 30% have the nous to realise that coal and gas will be needed to back up unreliable wind and solar. But, nobody wants to pay for it: or, at most, they are prepared to pay an extra one dollar a day for electricity.

It is thought by these believers of fairy tales that “clever decisions” will keep the price down!

Energy economist, Alan Moran, says that it will be very expensive to reach zero emissions by 2050. The only option is nuclear - and that would be “twice the cost of coal and gas”.

We have already subsidised the fairy tale renewables to the tune of $10 billion to allow them to charge us more for electricity, wreck our industries, and kill off employment.

Can’t put it any better than that.

Panic is a crude animal instinct built in as a survival strategy.
Unfortunately for us as a society, panic is now promoted as a good trait.
And it’s the trait in human thinking processes which is promoted on social media platforms, forcing the herd into randomly unpredictable directions with undesirable outcomes related to the good of all in the end.

The Chinese appear before us now as the wisest of all, controlling social media ruthlessly, and for good reason.

Dan

quote- "The Chinese appear before us now as the wisest of all, controlling social media ruthlessly, and for good reason."

Be careful what you wish for DD, OLO would last about 3 milliseconds under the China internet regime. If this forum isn't a hotbed of "Picking quarrels and provoking trouble" then I am a constipated bear in the woods.
I'd have no issues with Alison Jane being gulag'd though, what a twit.

Having said that the more I dig around our brave new and expensive, renewable technology doesn't really look very renewable at all long term? More a case of out of the frying pan, and straight into another one..

ttbn,
>Newspoll shows that over 50%of Australians claim to want 100% renewable energy by 2050.
Disappointingly low, disappointingly slow. But it's better than nothing.

>Only 30% have the nous to realise that coal and gas will be needed to back up unreliable wind and solar.
That'd be the LACK OF nous, as although they're currently needed, getting to 100% renewables would by definition mean they won't be needed. And it's coal power that's unreliable - those coal fired power stations keep breaking down. Wind and solar are far more reliable, but are subbaseload.

Don't you live in SA? Didn't you notice the SA government bragging about SA having the most reliable electricity in the nation, with more renewables and falling prices?

>But, nobody wants to pay for it...
Considering how much electricity already costs, this is understandable.

>It is thought by these believers of fairy tales that “clever decisions” will keep the price down!
Considering stupid decisions have previously kept the price up, that's a reasonable conclusion. Renewables have a different cost structure, and we should be able to exploit that.

Is your "believers of fairy tales" jibe due to your own failure to comprehend that? Or is it merely intellectual dishonesty?

If we restrict ourselves to nuclear, of course it's going to cost a lot. But with solar and wind it can be done far more cheaply. A decade ago it was uncertain how solar and wind power could do the job, but now it has become clear: we need a massive overbuild of solar and wind power generators, with electrolysers (producing hydrogen) to use the excess electricity. Some of the electrolysers would be able to run in reverse, converting hydrogen back to electricity at times of high demand, though batteries would more commonly serve that purpose.

I know you believe, and want us all to believe, the fairy tale that renewables are to blame for our high electricity prices. But in reality the high gas prices were the biggest factor, and the renewables put downward pressure on wholesale prices.

Today, acknowledged and respected energy economist, Alan Moran, wrote: "Skyrocketing world electricity prices stem from renewable energy policies".

For me, that beats any ideological tripe from some anonymous poster who has no qualifications whatsoever in the area.

Nowhere in the world does wind and solar generation exist without huge taxpayer subsidies. And the subsidies will need to continue to save from embarrassment lying politicians and scamming carpetbaggers. Big Government - taxpayer money on top of high power prices - is essential to the continuation of the rip off renewable energy. It simply cannot survive otherwise.

Aiden, I loved your line about reduced wholesale electricity prices! Good one! That is the whole point. Renewables have more than doubled our prices and the generators will not give us any savings as they see that as theirs. Despite all the billions given in subsidies and outright gifts to these crooks.

JBowyer,

Aiden is like one of those robotic answering machines, saying the same thing no matter how many times you ring. I generally ignore him.

I couldn't care less about his "wholesale prices". My retail price on an electricity account due this month is 125% higher than it was this time last year.

It was my understanding that the rise in retail pricing was due to the "gold plating" of the networks and suppliers artificially reducing supply in a Cartel like manner?
Or am I incorrect?

ViolentEntropy,

Can't say. But you can be sure that the crooks are onto all lurks available to relieve us of our money. It's not just electricity. Australians pay too much for everything.

I am starting to really not like this country anymore.
It no longer resembles anything that I once knew and loved.

JBowyer,
> I loved your line about reduced wholesale electricity prices!
But will you love it more, or start hating it, when you discover it's true?

>That is the whole point. Renewables have more than doubled our prices
No they haven't. Prices have more than doubled, but that was mainly due to higher gas prices.

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ttbn,
>I couldn't care less about his "wholesale prices". My retail price on an electricity
>account due this month is 125% higher than it was this time last year.
Your electricity company is ripping you off, but you don't have to stick with them. Consumers can buy electricity on the wholesale market from http://www.amber.com.au

As for your earlier post:
Alan Moran acknowledged and respected? Who by?
After the low quality articles on this site he's previously written, certainly not by me!
Indeed his involvement with two rightwing think tanks with a track record of deception (the Institute of Public Affairs and the Heartland Institute) would probably make most thinking people quite wary even before they read the crap he writes!

You are living in the past, failing to notice that the cost of generating solar and wind power has plummeted over the past decade. And just to be crystal clear: of course that DOESN'T mean it's subsidised more. Subsidies don't directly affect the cost of power generation; they only change who pays for it. And they were only ever a short term tactic to get the industry up and running.

But don't just take my word for it: hear it from a genuine acknowledged and respected source: Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/renewable-energy-prices-hit-record-lows-how-can-utilities-benefit-from-unstoppable-solar-and-wind/?sh=65b25a8d2c84

Dear JBowyer,

I am paying a third of what I was before I put solar panels on. Australia has the highest uptake of solar panels in the world.

Our panels were subsidised by the Federal and State Goverments along with our insulation under Rudd all in the name of renewable energy and reducing demand.

It is you muggins who are being left behind.

SR,

Good to see socialism at work where those on lower incomes and rentals who can't afford solar are subsidising the better off who can.

Right on the mark, shadowminister. Wealthy people getting wealthier because they bludge off taxpayer subsidies is no recommendation for renewables.

The latest fad among the woke in the UK is reported to be the virtue signalling of not bringing children into the world, to save it. Save it for what reason, if the aim is to stop breeding humans?

Actually, it's probably a good idea. There are too many wokies now. If they stop breeding more of their kind, normal people will outbreed them, and we might get back to sanity.

Not very nice of you SR to reach into my pocket to pay for your solar panels.

A recent survey in the US found that 70% of US voters are in favor of renewables. The greenies cheered.

Another survey by the same people found that 73% of US voters would not pay as much as 20 cents a week more to support renewables. In fact 35% would not pay a single cent for them. Greenies were totally silent about this one.

It just goes to show that greenies are pretty good at designing survey questions that give the answer they want, & totally silent when the answer is not to their liking.

The Green New Deal might be looking at Electricity production, but it goes beyond that anything produced made from carbon or uses carbon fuels or creates carbon is at risk in the Green world. You might have an electric car but no bitumn or cement roads or plastics all made from carbon. Any flame used in manufacturing uses carbon fuel, so no steel or glass.

The industrial revolution was based on Coal and fossil fuel - the next industrial revolution is a downward spiral back to be based on nature.

Josepus, you know nobody is aiming for gross zero, so why do you post disinformation?

_______________________________________________________________________________

ttbn, people choosing not to have children is hardly a new phenomenon, so why do you regard it as "the latest fad among the woke in the UK"?

Aiden, How is steel made witout Coal? How is glass made without gas?
How is cement made without gas? How is grass mown or compost made or refuse decomposed without releasing gas?

We want the Government to change their ways and subderdise ours but we will not change ours is the fact. Returning to a primitive aboriginal hunter gather culture is the only life that will reduce human creation of CO2 and Green house gasses.

Shadowminister and Hasbeen,

Given solar packages are now zero up front costs, at least here in Victoria, even home owners on limited budgets can have them installed.

You were going to have your pocket reached into if the government had decided to build new coal fired power stations instead. Australians have largely given sooks like the two of you the finger and gone 5he solar path.

It is my belief that the PM will give in, in Glasgow to the Green Lobby believing they represent the largest voice in Australia, being a Democrasy. But he will not be in power in 2050 to deal with the economics and unemployment consequences of zero emmissions. From the loss of employment from coal mining and related uses and employment loss from fosil fuelled vehicles, aircraft and shipping [gas, alcohol, petrol, oil and diesel].

Josephus,
>How is steel made witout Coal?
There are various ways; the easiest is just to recycle it in an electric arc furnace. But if you're asking about making it from scratch, alternative carbon sources (such as biochar) can be used. The reduction or iron ore can instead be done with hydrogen to make sponge iron. Further into the future, molten oxide electrolysis promises even greater efficiency improvements, though that's still at the experimental stage at the moment.

>How is glass made without gas?
The gas is only used to make heat, which could instead be made with electricity.

>How is cement made without gas?
See above!

>How is grass mown or compost made or refuse decomposed without releasing gas?
Electric mowers have been around for decades.
Compost can be made under aerobic conditions - indeed it's generally regarded as giving better results when it is.
Refuse could instead be degraded thermochemically. But it may be more efficient just to capture the gas produced (as is widely done already).

>We want the Government to change their ways and subderdise ours but we will not change ours is the fact.
We want the problem solved without major changes to our lifestyles, which is fair enough.

>Returning to a primitive aboriginal hunter gather culture is the only life that will reduce
>human creation of CO2 and Green house gasses.
I am unable to comprehend how anyone could believe such a ludicrous statement. Can you explain it?

Aidan if you were any more naive, you would sprout wings & fly off with Tinkerbell.

Former Climate activits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

Hasbeen, you say that but fail to identify any errors in what I say.
It looks very much to me like you alleging I'm off with the fairies is a form of cognitive dissonance - your mind is too feeble to accept the truth when it doesn't conform to your prejudices, so you start to imagine excuses to avoid having to think about it.

______________________________________________________________________________

Josephus, now I'm even more confused - have you only just discovered the capabilities of nuclear power? If not, how do you reconcile it with your ludicrous statement above?
Or do you share Hasbeen's cognitive dissonance problem?

Aiden I have always been for what works, it is what Greens said about nuclear submarines, that puts me in conflict with what greens view as acceptable .

Looks as though Morrison is off to cock his leg with the rest of them and piss on about zero emissions by 2050, which are as likely to come about as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Twenty five of these yap sessions have preceded this one, with no noticeable results. This one will be no different, no matter what rubbish they sign up to.

Saw a video this morning of ordinary citizens dragging climate wackos off the road. A very good sign that the majority has had enough.

SR,

The stats are that the vast majority of rooftop Solar installations are on mid to wealthy households that are subsidized by lower-income households.