Once again, the live export industry has been caught with nowhere to go. The aging "Al Messilah", a converted car transporter with closed decks, left Devonport amid a storm of protest in February 2006 with over 71,000 sheep (and some Victorian cattle). 1632 of the sheep died, and AQIS has attributed the mortalities to inanition (starvation) and an outbreak of "pink-eye", which was identified prior to loading at the feedlot.
AQIS further identified that Tasmanian sheep do not cope well with the climatic extremes they are forced to face, the ship was packed, there was insufficient feed on board to sustain the marathon 24 day journey, and insufficient crew to care for the animals (priority was given to the cattle of whom 1.88% also died). Protesters saw ill and injured sheep on trucks and being loaded, and the transport of polled and horned sheep together. Confirmed reports indicate that up to 50% of the sheep did not have the mandated period in the feedlot in preparation either. There are calls for export agents Roberts to face charges under the Tasmanian Animal Welfare Act (1993), but the statute of limitations is 6 months, so it is too late. As for sanctions over the ALES breaches - forget it. These issues were reported to the authorities at the wharf, and subsequently to the Minister, to no avail. Fortunately, Animals Australia may have better success with its complaints relating to other reportable voyages under Western Australian legislation.

ALEX 0814

Your thread once again brings to the attention the lack of concern by all authorties involved. What does the RSPCA have to say about this? and what are they doing about this?

The Tassi group was well run and I can only imagine there would have been ample evidence documented with the correct prodedure followed.

We suggested some years ago that this evidence be sent on direct to the public.

I know there are costs involved but with two people in each area it could be done.

We see "yet again" it takes a member of the public to report on this ongoing lack of action which amounts to straight out corruption.

I hope one day we can round up all the people involved along with the Mininsters members of AQIS and the low lifes involved in this barbaric evil trade- Along with the Media owners that own interests and send them off in the same ship with the same position.

In the mean time do you have any written reason why Roberts was not charged AGAIN!?

Mr Howard Mr Rudd what members of the public want to know is- Who do you people think you are?

Years ago there were a number of enquiries into the cruel live trade.
ALL of those Enquiries came back with- Live Animal Exports Are Barbaric Cruel and unnessary and were to be ceased immediatly.

WE the Australia public PAID for those enquires so WHY HAVENT YOU FOLLOWED THEIR FINDINGS?

Roberts has been named over and over again and still no charges have been laid.

The Australian People want to know why not ?

Dear People Against Live Exports and Intensive Farming
The matters of the transports were reported to the Police Inspector (Adrian Shadbolt) present at the wharf gates who reported it to the (then) RSPCA Chief Animal Welfare Officer Graeme Lewis. His comment was "I thought that only applied to cattle". The police were far more concerned with containing the protesters, who were lying in front of trucks and otherwise hindering Roberts' "lawful business". The matters of sick and injured sheep, the transports (or what we could see of them because they were using fully enclosed cattle trucks) and the fact that loading continued into the night in contravention of Devonport City by-laws were reported first to then Minister Steve Kons, who referred it to incoming Minister David Llewellyn, who sent the usual "form" letters for 6 months in response to concerns, then finally wrote saying that he "refused to debate the matter further". Tasmania's Animal Welfare Act (1993 was, and is at present, the version in place), has a statute of limitations of six months, and we have only now got the full facts of the shipment as a result of Animals Australia's efforts. So state legislation for this purpose is now useless, but as I understand it, a clear statement has been made that should Roberts attempt another such shipment charges WILL be laid. But Roberts and Elders are both currently advertising in TasCountry for animals (cattle at the moment)for export, who are shipped to Portland in Victoria and exported from there, and these are impossible to track as so many animals (400,000+) are shipped out of Tasmania interstate each year. There was no sheep shipment from Devonport in 2007 and we are informed that there will not be one next year either (insufficient numbers available, we are told).
Alex

ALEX 0814

SPEAKING OF TASSI- For EVERYBODIES INFORMATION-

Here is copy of a small section of correspondence containing important information a lady wanted you to have.

I would like to discuss the no shipment from Tasi for 2007 with you further.
Think the cruel bastards are trucking them elsewhere to avoid TASI Protests.

"A Public Royal Commission into this whole industry is long overdue!"

" Below letter written RSPCA Tassi 2004"
To: Graeme.Lewis@ifs.tas.gov.au
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:26 PM

Dear Paul

Thank you for your prompt answer it was helpful. It sometimes is difficult when doing research when people send you from one Department to the next.
However I am now more confused than ever. I thought the RSPCA were a NFP organisation and said they received "no Goverment funding"
Also I watched four corners on ABC when they did a story called a Blind Eye.

In that documentary The RSPCA said they received no Government funding.?

How can I find out what funding they receive?
Kind regards Kate Goodwin

"THIS WAS THE REPLY">

Thanks for your email. Mr Lewis is currently away on annual leave so I shall try and answer your questions for you.
Mr Lewis is the Chief Animal Welfare Officer in the state and is in charge of the RSPCA Inspectorate. His address is at the Inland Fisheries building in Lampton Avenue, Derwent Park, Hobart.

We also have a state manager who over looks the inspectorate and RSPCA shelters.
His name is Steve Coleman who is based at Yagoona RSPCA Centre in New South Wales.
The RSPCA Inspectorate are not Government employed, however RSPCA Australia does receive funding from the Government to employ inspectors and run the inspectorate service.

I hope this has been of some help to you.

Regards

Paul Wyld
Animal Welfare Officer


24/11/2004 10:27 PM


To: <graeme.lewis@dpiwe.tas.gov.au>

"A Public Royal Commission into this whole industry is long overdue!"

It seems fairly clear that animals are being sent from Tasmania out of Portland in Victoria - the present advertisements are for cattle; Elders for Mexico and Roberts (we think) for China. Roberts was taken over by RuralCo and has a new CEO, John Mahon. It still seems to trade as Roberts.
I don't know that they would be allowing the possibility of protests bother them too much - historically, advocates were allowed to stop trucks entering the wharf for 30 seconds, but no so in 2006. Roberts was able to prevail upon the police, and Police Minister David Llewellyn, to put a stop to that (undue influence?).
Graeme Lewis is no longer with the RSPCA - he moved into a nice State government job when contractual arrangements changed, and the Inspectorate began reporting to RSPCA Tasmania instead of RSPCA Australia. RSPCA Tasmania has just lost two very senior Board members and its president over "matters of principle" (undisclosed) to do with the CEO.
A0814

Alex0814,
^
I am a person who volunteers.

Seems to me if you look up^ at the above post your friends already have enough to call on a Royal Commission.

I am aware there are some wonderful people working at the RSPCA.

However if the SRUCTURE was set out in the first place as a FRONT for the Government and Industry to cover up cruelty and allow farm animals to be treated inhumanly that “should” be your friends first port of call.

At least you wont have to look far to find Graham. If you trace many of them you will find similar I would suggest.

I respectfully put it to your that your friends won’t fix anything if the system set in place is in fact based on a LIE.

“ That would mean the Australian People have been mis informed and lied to.”

If RSPCA National employ CEOs through “Contracts” and the cars for CEOs and “Inspectors”- and also their holidays and travel under this arrangement then its crystal clear “it’s just another body of the Government”.

Yes they would have put somebody up as a buffer for Roberts but he will still be involved- [ You can bank on it]

They run the show like the old boys Nationals club.

They try to keep new names kicking about to take the embarrassment away from the Government and others a bit so the public wont think they are doing nothing.

‘There seems to be NO ACCOUNTABILTY by RSPCA National to ANYBODY as to WHOM they are accountably to??

As this is supposed to be a public NFP Charity I put it to you they ARE RESPONSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC

From what I can see they are only accountable to THEMSELVES at a few board meetings!

Come on now- Paid by way of CONTRACTS employed by RSPCA NATIONAL who
ARE funded by the GOVERNMENT – Right down to their salary cars and holidays??
CLOSED MEETINGS_ NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC?

With SPECIAL arrangements with Two SPECIAL MINISTERS who report DIRECTLY back to JOHN HOWARD.

Really how INDERPENDANT IT THAT?

ALEX 0814,
HOW INDERPENDANT IS THE RSPCA FROM THE GOVERNMENT?

I would like to add Alex that I firmly believe that unless your friends are prepaired to comprimise for the Animals sake Cruelty and Live Animal Exports is going to get much worse and tripple again in numbers.
It already has!
The difference between your friends and mine is that we KNOW the only way to improve conditions for animals is to get involved in a BIG way with the Industry.
Do you have any idea of the type of people involved world wide in the meat industry?
They are some of the biggest rouges and rough tuff guys who dont mind playing it dirty. Real dirty.

Your people are no match for these scum bags despite the many wonderful efforts made by thousands of Australians and others world wide.
While you write letters to Ministers instead of getting involved in the trade you wont get far.
The demand for meat world wide is growing.
What you need to do is remember it will ALWAYS BE DRIVEN BY THE INDUSTRY AND THE DEMAND.

You need hungry tough smart operators to help establish many abattoirs close to the place of origen to cut transport. Get involved and work 'with them" to cut the stress in plants.
Then look to the Neverlands to check out their gas plants.

Help the new operators and take a percentage to continue your work.
There are HEAPS of people world wide VERY interested in free range pork , poultry and beef veggie farms.
Drive the industry and forget the Government and RSPCA.

There is much interest in establishing fast food veggie chains which can be grown on your own farms.
People from overseas NEED to "know" they have good contacts here in Australia to establish these outlets.
I urge your friends to seriously consider they options while we still have a chance to put the big boys on their arse.

SHAME ON JOHN HOWARD - AND RUDD "Speaking of feeding the chooks."

TIME FOR AN INDERPENDANT GOVERNMENT

Ooops!

Must be something I said.

Thats what I mean about standing up for the rights of Animals.
You wont get anywhere by lying down.
Or perhaps I have stood on the ' Political toes ' of Animal Welfare'!

Regarless getting back to Tassi and Roberts we are looking for a plant to buy in Tassi to compete on the open market.

Also I dont see any reason not to share with you we have been contacted by Muslim Leaders who are going to support the PRE STUNNING of All Animals and try to install gas into all Aussie plants.
We would not have achieved this if we had "gone to water".

If you believe in somthing you "must stand up and fight"! for it.

I cant think of anything thats worth fighting for more than a fair go for our animals.

Remember what I said- There are some rough tough players world wide in this Industry. Including the Government which big cheque books and new laws. DIDDIMS!



WE would appreciate local knowledge from you and we would like to visit with a view of a healthy outlook to give Tassi Farmers a better price and give Roberts[ and his Merry Fronts and friends the arse.

I used to thank Elders- The largest live Animal Exporter along with the AWB for sponsering this forum.

However they seem to have dissapeared off the site.

Thank You Alex for opening this thread. I know you work hard.

If you want to stop live Animal Exports you must face the fact that we have to slaughter in Tassi!

We cant have it both ways.

We cant tell the world not to eat meat.

You Alex CAN help by helping us set up Tassi AND we need good people like you to recomemd where the shade goes any other improvements to help the animals and you WILL! be welcome at plants to check the Animals.
I hope we hear from you.
Tassi have done some great work.
You have
The Animals thank You.
We thank you

Hi there
Sorry - I didn't realize that I had missed a posting. I don't have any particular local knowledge of the meat industry here, other than the fact that all slaughterhouses are currently working at full capacity. I reckon your best shot would be the meat workers union; they are the guys who know what is going on - or perhaps someone in government in Tasmania.
A0814

Alex-

Thanks Already have but we like to work with locals at grass roots to be sure the info is the best available.

Animal Welfare groups and Animal minded people are required also to ensure all recomdations are followed to the T

If you find yourself available later or know anybody in Tassi who would like to assist with competing with our mate the live exporter our email address is on our web page under membership of OLO.

Can you tell us please how many intensive farms are in Tassi

All Animals.

Keep up the good work.!

That would be difficult to find out, because the Department of Primary Industries and Water website has not been updated for a couple of years. I do know of a cattle feedlot in the north at Epping Forest (owned by the Japanese, I believe), several pig farms and quite a few battery/meat chicken farms. One was infiltrated by animal advocates and the film shown on "Stateline", but when the RSPCA went to inspect it a couple of days later, it was clear that it had been "tipped off" - and they claimed to have found "no welfare problems". It is very difficult to get information from the Department and the RSPCA. There is no planned live export shipment from Devonport next year either but that is apparently because of a shortage of sheep. Elders and Roberts are both advertising for animals to be sent for export to Victoria, cattle at present. The mortality report on the last shipment makes interesting reading; it is quite clear about Tasmanian sheep not being suitable for export because they cannot cope with the climatic extremes they have to face. Ir seems reasonable to assume that Tasmanian cattle are the same. On the "Maysora" shipment which has been in the news, it seems that they sent Bos Taurus cattle from Victoria who should not have been sent at that time of the year.
A0814

Alex0814,

Sorry I didn’t see your reply before. The tag on your thread does not show when a new comment goes up. Perhaps you could inform OLO.
The information is invaluable. Thank You - because this is “exactly what we need” Australia wide- local Info.

Alex0814, said-

Elders and Roberts are both advertising for animals to be sent for export to Victoria, cattle at present.

PALE replies.
Umm are they now. Can you tell us where and how- in which papers and internet sources etc please?

Alex0814, said-

The mortality report on the last shipment makes interesting reading; it is quite clear about Tasmanian sheep not being suitable for .

PALE Replies-
Could you post that report for us please?
Lets face it No Animal should be put on these death ships what so ever. Animals are land creatures and Australia is the last place on earth they should be sent from. Its insane and utter barbaric treatment of Australian Creatures. Not to mention our jobs and this countries future!

Alex0814, said-

but when the RSPCA went to inspect it a couple of days later, it was clear that it had been "tipped off" - and they claimed to have found "no welfare problems"
.
Pale Replies-

Well Golly- gee Wiz

I wonder how that happened? But wait- Could it be a leak?

Ah yes but of course an unfortunate leak. Hey you don’t reckon it might have something to do with that written [undisputed] letter given to Kate do You?

This one-

, however RSPCA Australia “does receive funding from the government’ “to employ inspectors and run the inspectorate service.”

I hope this has been of some help to you.

Regards

Paul Wyld
Animal Welfare Officer

? ? ? ?

ALEX0418said

". It is very difficult to get information from the Department and the RSPCA.

PALEREPLIES
Its shouldn’t be.

RSPCA are “supposed to be” a public organization? ? ?

CONCLUSHION-

The Intensive Farming Industry and Live Animal Exports will “always! be driven by the Industry.”

Put “ALL” our efforts “THERE ““forget RSPCA!” .

Here's where I found the "Al Messilah" and the other reports - they are in pdf format

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/media/foi

I understand that AQIS has now agreed to publish all mortality reports on its website. There are others at www.liveexportshame.com back in 2002 and they include the "Becrux"; reading that it seems safe to assume that Tasmanian sheep would have figured in those mortalities, and the other reports there are silent but the some of ships loaded in Victoria so it is quite likely there was Tasmanian involvement there too. One report, on the "Norvantes" clearly indicates that the "independent third party veterinarian" had his own cattle in the shipment and he approved the ship to sail into a cyclone.

When the Department of Primary Industries and Water here was challenged about "leaking" the impending inspection of Pitts Poultry, (named under Parliamentary privilege by the Greens animal welfare spokesman) various threats were made regarding "being able to back up such accusations or else...". Meanwhile the General Manager in DPIW who also chairs the milk regulatory authority is overseeing the mass deaths of dairy cattle on a farm in the north west.

The advertisements for animals for export were in TasCountry, and I do not think they have a link or website. But Roberts or Elders websites may have some details
A0814

I don't have much to say that I haven't already mentioned on previous threads.

This post is simply to congratulate you Alex for bringing this heinous practice to readers' attention.

I urge people who care, like yourself, PALE and other animal welfare groups to continue raising this issue. I am sure many people are accessing these threads and even though they may not respond, they will at least learn the truth on how this country is governed by sadists whose only motive is profit.

A pox on all the barbarians!

Alex0814,
Thank you for you helpful post.
I am aware of Animals Australia and their tireless work. We are slightly different in our approach but it`s to the same end. For The Animals.
Umm AQIS- Well that’s nice however I think we have already established many times over we “cant trust” the Government with these figures or to tell the truth.

www.liveexportshame was started by a fantastic independent lady by the name of Dawn. I am unsure if she still has it but I know she still does excellent work.
Of course the Industry argue that all has been improved now and people like us are going on about rubbish.

Alex0814- May I tell you how we see it please. We see live exports growing and growing along with Intensive farming.
We can see that Governments and RSPCA will never stop it and have no intention of doing so.
We see its impossible to stop people world wide eating meat and I don’t think we have the right to ask them.
This may offend some including yourself but we see that Vegetarian groups[ no matter how well intended ]are used “against” main stream groups like us by the Industry and the Government by calling everybody extreme and gain the support of the public to take attention off the Animals.

WE wont ever fall into that trap. That’s why we are so vocal and go out of our way to show we are independent.
We also know the only way to turn this around is to bring in new players to the Industry.
They will have to be big players and not worried by some of the ruff and tuffle of some and their tricks already in the industry.

Ever heard of the saying- the bigger they are the harder they fall?
Our job is to put the cruel low lifes out of business.
The only way to do that is to open plants and use Gas and slaughter HERE as close to the paddock as possible. We are working on it but the others refuse to help.

Hi Dickie, and thank you for your kind words. You wonder if the politicians or their minders read this. I'm not sure what other threads you mean, but I guess there would be some here. I'll have a look. PALE - I'm also not sure what you mean about vegetarian groups. I'm not a member of any group, but the ones I know of, while the people who run them may be vegetarians or vegans, you can bet most of their members - upon whom they rely for support - aren't. I don't see Animals Australia telling people to be vegetarian or vegan, they seem to be pushing the frozen/chilled meat trade quite strongly. The same seems to be true of the Animal Liberation stuff I've read.
The RSPCA only goes as far as that - but it's very easy for the RSPCA to put position papers on their website and not do a whole lot more beyond that. I've just been reading some of their SA stuff about the pig farms; they got three employees sacked for whistleblowing.
As for GAS - in Tasmania, that isn't easy. I can't even get gas to my house despite the brand new pipeline being outside my back door. I did hear that the government did do something about making sure the meat processing companies got access to the "new" gas though. Probably the meat workers union would know. Tasmania is not the most progressive state, in so many ways. Through the most corrupt process in history in Australian politics we are about to get a pulp mill that no-one except Gunns and the Premier want.
Alex

I forgot - this article appeared in the Hobart Mercury last Monday.

Call for sheep death charges
Hobart Mercury 27.08.2007

Animal advocates are calling for charges to be laid against Tasmania’s Roberts Limited over the deaths of nearly 1700 sheep shipped from Tasmania last year.

An Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service report released last week found that Tasmanian sheep were unsuited to the heat and stress of equatorial crossings.

The ship “Al Messilah” left Devonport in February, and the report, obtained by Animals Australia under Freedom of Information found a series of problems on the carrier, including a lack of food and poor treatment of pink-eye disease.

While Roberts would not comment, Livecorp chief executive Cameron Hall said the outcome was “regrettable”.

Live Export Shame Tasmania spokeswoman Suzanne Cass said:

“There is no reason why live export companies should be able to escape their animal welfare responsibilities under the Animal Welfare Act and the Australian Standards for the Export of Livestock”.

(Ends)

I guess it says it all really. I do know that a number of breaches were reported at the wharf, but the authorities were too interested in dealing with the protest to take any notice. We told them that sick and injured sheep were on the trucks, amongst other things, and reported it all to the Minister afterwards. Some of the reports have been posted by someone at www.liveexportshame.com on their forum.

Alex.

Hello Dickie
Lovely to see you on this thread.
Perhaps Alex and yourself could post the story in last weeks paper on OLO under a new thread.
Call for etc etc
I agree its good to keep the subject going however I would really like to hand that over and make coments from time to time.
Facts are stories like this have been around for thirty years and live exports are growing.
Regarless of the good work done by people like Animals Australia and Suzzanne cazz the government and indusrty will never stop it.
I have told this to AA AL PACAT Voiceless PETA just to mention a few until I am blue in the face.
We have requested they help by supplying local info from the different states and greeting people from Saudi etc to introduce them to farmers direct!
Only by establishing a new company to the industry will we ever stop it.
Only by competing with these cruel operators and putting them out of business by advertsing humane slaughter with pre stunning and gas will we stop them.
To contiune to stand at the warfs is good- Its better than nothing.

However I dont think we can say we have got far in thirty years if you look at the growth of live exports.

Its time for the others to help us put the big boys out of business.
Action has always spoken loudr than words.

We need your help to acheive this because as you can imagine its a big job.
We have the contacts but its almost impossible if the others refuse to help.

If you really want to stop live exports please work with us meeting reps from overseas to open plants please!

For the Animals

The only people I know of in Tasmania who might have, and also would provide that information (about the farmers) in Tasmania would be the meat workers' union. I don't think the RSPCA knows (or wants to know), and government, if it knows, will refuse to provide it. Since its website contains minimal detail on intensive farming and none on live exports, I suspect it finds the subject a bit touchy.
The government's position is that it "does not support, or even condone, live exports, but it respects the right of farmers to get the best price for their 'products'" (says it all really). Having said that, it then just defaults to it being a matter for the Federal government.
I did try to get some information from the DPIW vet who sub-contracts to AQIS at live export time, a while back and he didn't reply (Dr Rick (Patrick) Campbell in Devonport). He didn't do too great a job with the "Al Messilah", did he?
Alex

Alex007said

He didn't do too great a job with the "Al Messilah", did he?
PALE replies
No Alex he didnt.

I dont know who you are but what I do know is you have "good understanding" of the system.

May we ask a big favour?
If your not working full time biz hours would you meet Delgates at air port and take them to the selected properties? There would be a Halal meat rep as well so you would not be alone .

We of course will pay everything[and you] its time thats my problem.

I have the usual contacts that you mentioned above but we are starved of "local knowledge."

It would be much better if you contacted me by email because there are some things I wont put here.

We are looking for the following if you can help it would be very much appreciated.

1 Local knowledge for the best accomadation for delagates from overseas[ prefernce to Halal meals if available and Car hire[ minny bus]

2 Abattoirs Farms- even domestic plants etc[ I will do that but if you think of any let me know[

3 A good parcel of land in a perfect position.ie Good feed water near main road]

4 Where are most of the sheep farm areas?

The rest I could Google but you will know.

A. The Tassi Premier- Name contact

The State Mininster for Aboriginal affairs and especially anybody doing or looking to do special programes.
B The Minister for health--
C The Mininster for Employment
D The Mininster for trade- but he will probably be the Premier- surprise surprise
E Where is Bob Browns office ?

If all goes well we will buy 2 here in QLD one for the moment in NSW. I have already asked about Tassi and sent your story through.
I got a yes go ahead back on Tassi.[ and a couple of comments about your Roberts bloke I wont print]

Would welcome ANY info from your friends in other states ie WA Vic etc to follow the same programe as above.

We will just take that as a No- and thank you for opening this thread to keep in the spot light the dreadful treatment of our Australian Animals.
We are painfully aware of the black list on any other groups working with pale.
However unlike others pale has no political agenda and is totally dedicated to improving conditions for Animals.

We know you cant have your cake and eat it too.

In Animal Welfare- Same applies- you cant say ban live Exports but refuse to help establish plants to process them here.

One must then wonder what these enourous amount of funds given by the public are actually used for.

No person working at pale recieve`s a wage and most members are paying costs as well as working for no costs.
We will continue our work to re-open abattoirs in Australia with improved methods.
For The Animals!

Hi PALE - I'm so sorry, I missed your earlier message. I'm usually more careful than that, and I always reply. I don't know how that happened. In answer to your questions (as best I can) - the Premier is (the very arrogant) Paul Lennon (also the Patron of RSPCA Tasmania; God knows how that happened), Minister for Primary Industries and Water is the useless David Llewellyn, and the Attorney General is Steve Kons. So far as I know, the Aboriginal population here is very small, and not especially active (in terms of special programs). Unfortunately I do work full time, too, and quite long hours, with travelling time as well. The main farming areas seem to be around the Midlands - Oatlands, Ross - and some around New Norfolk in the south as well. I'm not very familiar with the north. The State Secretary of the AMIEU is Grant Courtney, and the Opposition (Federal) spokesman for Agriculture is Tasmania's own Kerry O'Brien (who asked some very telling questions in Senate Estimates not so long ago). Tasmania has been made aware of the death toll of the last voyage from Devonport (February 2006). There is also a group called Against Animal Cruelty Tasmania and the CEO of RSPCA Tasmania is Dr Rick Butler. Those are the only contacts I can think of at the moment but if anything else springs to mind I'll add it later.
Regards
Alex

Sorry - I missed a couple of questions ... the Minister for Health is Lara Giddings, we don't have, so far as I know, a Minister for Employment or one for Indigenous Affairs, and Bob Brown's office is at 1, Franklin Square, Hobart TAS 7000. That's about the best I can think of.
Regards
Alex

Alex
Thanks. Some of that is useful tar. Some I knew. etc.
Sorry but I thought you were the other lot playing silly games again
They start threads in different names- post for a while-waiste our time then bolt.
I would ,like to keep in contact but thats completly up to you.
www.livexports.com
www.halakindmeats.com
Thanks for helping the animals!

No worries, PALE. In the wider scheme of things, Tasmania is "small fry", and I think even Roberts (CEO John Mahon) might have a few concerns about trying to get a ship out of her anytime soon after what has turned out to be the "Al Messilah" disaster.

Even using an enclosed ship - and such an old one at that - compounded the stupidity of ill and injured sheep being delivered to the feedlot, no AQIS vet looking at them for the first several days, then up to 50% of them not being in the feedlot for the mandated time. That information wasn't specified in the report, but I have been able to confirm it from other sources.

And the reality is we're talking about loading 71,309 sheep - it is physically impossible for all of them to be checked. Interestingly the report notes that the ship was fully loaded- but also that another 1600 or so were rejected - had they not been to ill to load would they have just loaded them on anyway and made the already appalling situation worse?

My feeling is that banner waving isn't going to "do it". In Tasmania it is easy to get to the government and to the media, and thus easy to embarass the government and Roberts. Both Roberts and Elders continue to advertise for cattle for export out of Victoria as well (some to Mexico (a Catholic country, for God's sake). Hitting the government continually with the scientific data appears to be getting through sufficiently to cause a certain discomfort. Kerry O'Brien is proving to be a surprising asset, and Dick Adams (MHR for Lyons) is a former meat worker. We also have excellent Greens aninmal welfare people, Nick McKim (their spokesperson) in particular.

By the way - you asked about halal establishments here. I wasn't exaggerating when I said Tasmania could not be accused of being progressive. It's a very small migrant population here and a smaller Muslim one, I suspect. Food from any other nationality/culture is not big here.
Regards
Alex

Alex
You are about the only normal decent person on OLO in regards to Animal Welfare.
Much of that info is helpful far beyond your understanding[ maybe]
Would you mind if I copied your posts to the PALE car park and the PALE defends Animals rights etc
We have some political jack ases trying to take the attetion away from the animals by personally attacking pale.
I am afriad our people are starting to now want to be abused anymore and your posts ae about live exports.
Of course if you would prefer I didnt thats ok too.
Thanks who ever you are and God bless you and your wonderful efforts to help the Animals.
Live Animal Exports is Australias Greatest Shame

Hi PALE
I've got no problem with that (at least, I don't think so! I don't suppose anyone can abuse me from Queensland, can they?) Who is the abuse coming from? Stuff I've read recently seems to be suggesting that Queensland is seeking to become a bigger player in live exports (it was cattle I read about). I think the "Deneb Prima" has been in and out of there and it's HUGE.

I've just send large information packages to the major politicians here, including copies of the CD footage, statistics and the mortality reports, and reiterated what Suzanne Cass (of Live Export Shame Tasmania) said in the story I posted from the "Mercury" - that charges SHOULD be laid against Roberts. Unfortunately it can't be done because of the statute of limitations, but if they do attempt another shipment from Devonport it might be a different story.

The police told us last time that it (Roberts) was carrying out a "lawful" activity - and now it turns out that it was indeed unlawful (Sections 7, 8 and 9 of the Tasmanian Animal Welfare Act). As well, they breached Devonport City bylaws (trucks roaring through at night), but I couldn't get any action on that either.

None of that stops them sending animals interstate though.
Roberts the company and its livestock manager Christopher Taylor were each convicted on animal cruelty charges back in 2002, and it was reported to me that there was another conviction back in 1998, although I haven't been able to confirm that.
Regards
Alex

Alex.
Thanks for your reply
Here is the the thread aimed at making pale change its name- I might add it’s the second time in two years.
Its never been done on OLO before. Robert also started the same issue two years ago about the same thing. It would be great if you could put your comments up re live exports Alex to get the debate back on the animals. If I copy it all myself I might be banned

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=989

Below is our response after years of harassment / Please note nobody else uses their real names. You will find the thread childish and a bore.
That is because we are being ‘kept’ from posting on the real issue which is the animals.
I would like to speak to you about QLD live exports but dare not post it
My web page has my number if you care to call
www.livexports.com
Thanks for trying to help the animals! You seem to be the ONLY one other than pale.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1022

Hi PALE
I didn't know what you meant by "Car Park" - that's all a bit incoherent and off (my) topic, I think!
For example, I have no interest in issues to do with separating parents, for one thing (in my experience, people have more to do with getting themselves into the predicaments they do than do animals, and certainly more control at getting themselves out of them, so they need less consideration).
Has some stuff been deleted or something? It's all impossible to make any sense of because it seems to be largely about people slagging off at each other! One point I did agree with - if you have more than one person making postings under the PALE name perhaps each person should identify themselves (under a nickname if they prefer) so that if they make inappropriate comment it does not thus discredit PALE, and then PALE is able to stick with the issues with which it is directly concerned and can develop credibility on that path.
Just some thoughts!
Regards
Alex

Alex
Thanks for taking your vaulable time to read that.
I do not think we are allowed to copy another persons post so it is up to you if you wish to put your info on the thread.
At least it will be read there.

Regarding your thoughts I happen to agree with you but we will not be changing a thing.

Yes there is a very good reason and its too long winded to get into now.
What I can tell you when it was tried that way a long time ago the same person opended a thread to complain.
This in return led to bad feelings all round so we had members rightfully defending their right to to post.

The rule was made then by OLO that myself Antje could post for pale.
Sometimes people write something on word doc and I posts it.

While this may not always follow through its taken a long time for the upset to settle.

If we raised it again it would only result in people being cross.

Regarding posts on other topics we dont tell people that they can only send us post on live exports.

We have to allow people to be themselves and respect them for what that want to do.

Also we do not trust the motives of the persom who opended the complaint thread.
After all you have to remember it was him who inisted it was done this way.
If we did did try to change back he might get us barred again.
To be honest we might even close pale because its effecting my health pluss two others We just wanted to help animals but we pretty fund self and work hard for not one cent but lets face it
What for. They have NOT allowed us to work for nearly two years.

Hope you follow that.

Alex
I just wanted to add that the other person who has worked hard for the animals actually morgaged their home to keep things going.

If you looked at that scappy thread you will se a person promising to call the one small fund support we have.
In fact we feel its already done.
That simply means we are unable to contuine anyway.
I am Germann born and I came to QLD to help because I love Animals more than anything in the world. I know my english and spelling is a draw back but I try for the Animals.
I am also a wild life carer.
I am respected world wide and I must say I have never experienced the unfriendly people involved with other groups before.
Never.!
There is a large amount of information and contacts somebody like you may be able to use if you email Antje at our web site address.

My friend asked me to pass on to you that if we close you might like it.
I dont know for sure because its very much up to that person but I think its kind of too much now after years of trying being rubbished.
We would like to thank you for helping animals.

Hi PALE
I'm getting a bit confused - were the last two posts from two people or one? Not knowing a whole lot about PALE or all this history it's a little difficult to follow. Adding another "name" in the Tasmanian (i.e. small) scheme of things would cause more problems than it would solve, I suspect; there is already Against Animal Cruelty Tasmania and Live Export Shame Tasmania and there appears to be something new called "Stop Tasmanian Animal Cruelty". It seems to be looking at the law and how cruelty matters are dealt with, but I don't know who is behind either of the last two.
One thing is that in spite of media coverage about the "Al Messilah" voyage,Roerts continues to "refuse to comment", which can only be a good thing. It is confirmed that there will be no shipment out of Devonport in 2008 either, which can also only be a good thing.
My advice, for what it is worth, is to perhaps stick with what you are doing and don't buy into the arguments on the other threads. There doesn't seem much to gain by wasting energy getting off the topic and letting yourself/ves be part of slanging matches.
Regards
Alex

Alex
The posts were both from myself Antje. The other offer was not meant to take over any name just for the docs and contacts info and such.

Do you mind I I also offfer a suggestion to you?
When you post put up Live Animal Exports insteadof just live Exports.
Many people do not make the connection.
AACT is run by a fantsic lady Yvette Watt still as far as I know.
Suzzanne Caz was pretty much running it and she is very dedicated.

I think she may now be running another group however I am unsure.

They are probably just trucking further and watch out for night ship going to a back warf as they have done inn the past in other places.

Yes I agree the other posts that were set up are both hard to follow and unhelpful

This is just an example of how uncaring some are too animals suffering.
Anyway I will se what happens at the next meeting which is soon.
Keep up the good work.
I may open a thread regarding loss of employment due to live animals exports.

Of course I possibly wont be able to get the message out if current nonesense continues.
I am thinking of going back to Canberra.

Will pop in this thread and say bye if I am'
Take care of the tasi Animals and thanks.

Hi Pale
All the best in Canberra. Kevin Rudd is probably a lost cause with his "me too" mentality, but Julia Gillard and Kerry O'Brien might be worth bailing up.
I think that AACT now has an Executive Officer named Jennifer Beer, although Yvette Watt seems to be very much involved still. From the article in the Mercury Suzanne Cass seems to be doing the Live Export Shame thing from Tasmania - the main site seems to be WA oriented. It's an excellent site. Stop Tasmanian Animal Cruelty looks to be just starting out, and so far is focussing on the legal aspects, how cruelty cases are dealt with by the courts with a bit on intensive farming and links to the law and the "Standards" (Codes of Practice).
The ships that leave Devonport with live animals for Victoria, and from there who knows where (and it's impossible to find out) are "roll on/roll off" ships, the "Searoad Tamar" and the "Searoad Mersey" - the animals go on on the trucks and there they stay - I did hear that lambs are trucked as far away as Dubbo in NSW for slaughter, and that a few weeks ago, someone nicked 120 sheep (old, ill ones) from a local saleyard - they were destined for a long haul to Ballarat in Victoria for slaughter (so good luck to whoever nicked them).
It really is ludicrous (and terribly cruel).
I understand that less animals are leaving Tasmania at the moment because the slaughterhouses here are running at capacity, and that is the reason that there is no shipment planned from Devonport for 2008.
Catch you next time you drop in.
Regards
Alex.
PS - Sorry - did you say that you and Antji are different people both belonging to PALE or was it just Antji?

Alex
I have asked Antje to post this reply to you as pale from myself and of course she is the person who posts on OLO. My name is Wendy. I am the President and we are impressed by your efforts
Your information is very helpful. I asked Antje to post the first few which I did on word doc for you.
Sorry to be so paranoid but some wants us off OLO.
Shame was stared by Dawn in WA . Shes very good. Several years ago I spoke with Christa in Germany who stated Animal Angles and was going to fly her over here to meet personally with media.
I included several others but I was quitly emailed a copy of a meeting to catch up with Christa in WA instead.
Apparently I was told Suzzanne and Dawm and one other didnt want pale there.
Suzzanne originally started through our petition.
pale does not think we will stop live exports until we bring new buyers into the meat trade.
Most groups will not support setting up abattoirs so hense the problem
The other real problem is this control over animal groups run by PETA who are veggie enables the media to write off Animals groups as extreme.
I have never experienced such utter disunity in people working together as exsists in Animal groups .
We now do our own thing but many want us gone.
We do not fund raise and we only care about animals not paying ourselves.
If we DONT establish more plants in Australia this will only get worse.
Much Worse.
Well lets see if Antje goes or stays.
best wishes Alex

Hi PALE
I don't really know about what has gone on before and I don't reckon there's much to be gained by going over it. You may be right about the markets, I don't know about that really either - that sort of stuff could probably be dealt with best by the AMIEU - maybe in Tasmania the Tasmanian Farmers and Graziers Association might be worth talking to. They are in Launceston, I think. There was a man there called David Byard who seemed okay (he was the Chairman of their Meat Division), but I don't think he's there any more. He just started some brand of "superior" Tasmanian meat under the "Wilderness" brand. A Google White Pages search would find him (somewhere like Pipers River rings some bells) I think Roger Swain is the CEO of the TFGA now, but not sure about that. They are always after the "biggest bang for the buck".
All the best
Regards
Alex

Alex

Whatever- just giving you the drum on whats going to stop it that all.
Its always going to driven by the industry. I have done the hard yards for six years getting off shore contacts who would come in build train people set up farms donate to animal welfare.

Nobody wants to know about the fix. They are too busy showing pictures to pull at the heary strings of the good public to keep a paid job.
Bugger finding a solution to really STOP the trade.

Oh no too busy running around playing politics while live exports tripple.
oh hey they do tell people not to eat meat.
Thats a big help! it gives media the chance to rubbish us all.
It also gives costello the chance to bring out new laws to gag people.
Sorry Alex but if they wont help with identifying new areas for plants and do something that will actually help I will continue to call the a bunch of hypicrits.
Nothing I can do alone.
I got good contacts with heaps to invest but I cant do the whole of Australia alone.
No they will go on playing their litle games convicing themselves they are making a difference.
As I said if we dont control the industry we wont ever stop it.
I am sick of the political front.I will probably be banned off here anyway soon because I pointed out there are posts all over calling us racist pigs. One lone decent lady said it wasnt right it was left up.
HER comment was taken off . What a joke! the racist pigs comments are still up all over the forum.
Enough is enough.
I am only so sad I could not help the Animals but its clear the others are not serious.I morgaged my home to keep the project going.

Its useless. THEIR useless! They know it all.
Mean while more and more go overseas to barbaric deaths!

Hi all
Not sure if this is of any interest, but the Tasman Group (slaughterhouses) in Tasmania, (at Longford in the northern Midlands, I think) and I think its Victorian operation too, are heavily promoted for sale in TasCountry. There's no indication of who an agent is but the Meat Workers' Union State Secretary, Grant Courtney, is extensively quoted as is David Byard who used to be part of the TFGA. . I can't send a URL because I don't think Tascountry has one.It also says hundreds and thousands of animals are shipped interstate from Tasmania every year.
Regards
Alex