On the ABC John Howard said in a recent interview that no Australian soldier had died in vain in Afghanistan; the current situation in that country would seem to question his statement.
Comments?

People should stop listening to John Howard and all other ex-politicians. The fact that the Taliban is back, stronger and better armed than ever - thanks to the Yanks - definitely means that all allied soldiers, particularly our own, were KILLED in vain (let's drop this 'died' rot); and Howard, who never was a soldier, is a silly old man who should have shut his gob after he lost not only government, but his own seat. He, and leaders of all governments who sent troops to Afghanistan to be killed for no good reason - as far as their own countries were concerned - should hang their heads in shame, and apologise daily to the families of the needlessly dead.

Is Mise,

Did our soldiers die for nothing?

We shall have to wait and see what happens next in
Afghanistan for the answer to that question.
Is the Taliban capable of change? Or will it now
continue stronger than before being closely linked
to Al Qaeda and continue to function as a terrorist
group. We all feel uneasy about that question and don't
quite see a happy ending.

We've invested 20 years in Afghanistan, so many deaths,
with the hope of giving better futures and hopes to
people which we've now seen wiped away in a matter of
weeks. For the families of the dead - this must be so
hard to come to terms with today.

All we can do now is try to provide safe homes to refugees.
And Australia and other countries as taking in many
Afghan refugees. However nobody knows what's going to
happen next.

We can only hope that it wasn't all for nothing. But we'll
have to wait and see for an answer to that - it's the best
we can now do.

Foxy,
Our soldiers did not die for nothing, they died to satisfy the ambition of John Howard and nothing will change with the Taliban, they follow Islam and will continue to do so.
I feel the most sorrow for the thousands of women and girls who saw a better life via education and who will now be propelled back into the Dark Ages.

Hi Issy,

When it comes to Australians losing their lives in pathetic wars like Afghanistan, anything John Howard says is not worth a pint of piss. This is the same John Howard who supported the Vietnam War and over 500 Australians dead, while Howard himself pissed off to London to avoid any military service. Like Howards hero 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies the founder of the Liberal Party, who dogged military service in WWI, but at the same time supported the war that left over 60,000 Australians dead. Got to give it to the Liberals, they will push Australians into war, but never fight one themselves.

The Americans have now officially admitted their strategy was only to protect their homeland from terrorist attacks.
The installation of a corrupt Afghan regime was really about keeping the potential interests of neighbouring countries at bay.

The initial rise of the Taliban was aided by what the Afghans called "The Great Betrayal" - a time when American promised they would help rebuild Afghanistan after they drove out the Russians but they reneged on that deal.
Now there will be a whole new generation of embittered Afghans who feel deserted and abandoned.

Every time the West meddles in Middle Eastern affairs they make things progressively worse, such as the overthrow of stable progressive democratic governments and sponsorship of repressive dictatorships which led to the rise of militant Islam.

There is an entry in the British version of Hansard which says that "It is and has has always been the aim of this government to keep the Middle East destabilised". In that sense it's been a great victory.

Modern soldiers are just paid mercenaries.
The second you take foot off our soil, you're an invader, not a defender.
Fighting for democracy - what democracy?
Left and right are wings of the same bird.

The same democracy that openly punishes white people for being white in their own countries, preferring to instead back the interests of interlopers?

There's something really wrong in this world.
Elites want to create a 'new future' and dictate the lives of everyone single person in it.

You do this by taking countries away from their citizens, and making the citizens all multicultural guests.

Identity politics is just a tool to separate our own identities from our national identity.

- And in doing so, there's nothing 'Australian' left to even fight for.

People who are just surviving don't give much thought to freedom and democracy.

Two afghans squaring in the dirt, one says to the other; "Sorry to hear your goat died."....the other; "That's the end of me!".... "Look on the bright side, you get a free vote in next weeks democratic election."

Americans in full military outfits, M16's at the ready, land their Black Hawk in an Afghan village. Yank to "interpreter" in his Southern American drawl; "Tell em' we're here to bring em' freedom and democracy."..... The head Afghan mumbles something back...."What did he say?"...interpreter; "Have you got any Yankee cigarettes."

For Afghan thrill seekers, The Americans will take you up 30,000 feet hanging from the under-carriage of a giant transport full of Yanks inside watching as you drop to the ground without a parachute. Great entrainment for those on board, it sure beats the inflight movie.

If there's more Taliban now than ever, then the Taliban must be like a kind of religious nationalist entity? where the more the US tried to impose itself, the more it pushed these disgruntled citizens into the arms of the Taliban, because the Taliban aligned more with their views?

Maybe it's a similar thing to white Aussie males pushed towards identifying as NAZIs under political correctness agendas, that discriminate against white males.
Like 'Gender Diversity' quotas - over getting the job on merit.
And disparaging all 'white males' in a kind of collective punishment.
- Though I suppose the same could probably be applied to the term 'Black Man'.

Why should pushback be considered terrorism?
Terrorism, is when you take an 'Ends justifies the means' approach,
- Deliberately inciting acts of violence and harm against others.

But this is where they push things if they don't give people a voice;
This is what happened with black people, and there was pushback, and violence, and here we are now today.

If you're black and you want to pushback, that seems ok atm.
But white people can't have a voice at all without being labelled racist?

Why are they polarising things with identity politics, it's just making things worse, causing people to stand against each other?

I ask the question - Did the US create Taliban in it's own gung-ho attitude?

And more importantly is this.
Joe Biden Yells "My Butt's Been Wiped!"
http://youtu.be/A1veW1s24Xo

What am I supposed to do with this?

This is the guy that has the nuclear codes to the worlds most biggest military.

Again, what exactly am I supposed to do with this!!??

AC, if they had a "democratic" election in Afghanistan right now the Taliban Party would be the big winners. Our way of thinking is just as alien them, as there's is to us. They don't have a huge middle class or inteligencia to understand liberal democracy, no more than the surfs of the Dark Ages did. In their top 10 of concerns, democracy is not one of them, to them they have far more pressing issues, like who wont blow my head off than the luxury of democracy.

Like during the Vietnam War, the last thing the villages wanted to see was the Vietcong or the Americans in their village, it always ended badly for them, no matter who arrived.

The Taliban have seen how the Vietnamese got their foot in the door, can't blame them for trying to do the same !

I actually agree with ttbn.

An apology should be provided. Those governments who were involved, making the previous circumstance worse should also help clean up the mess. Admit as Governments you were wrong. Don't brush things under the carpet.

If this is anything to go by, it shows the current U.S President is not one can remotely consider a leader and I have already lost confidence, not that I had much in the first place. Others though had more and some still defend President Biden today, why I don't know.

Paul,
When did they put windows in the floors of US transport planes?

They didn't Issy, it replaces the in flight movie, Americans can enjoy it whilst chomping on their pre-prepared bagel. Several Afghans have refused to get on board because first class was full, and they refuse to ride in Economy!
What I seen of the inside of the plane, it looked like a typical 'Jetstar' flight. Unfortunately a lot of Afghans have been left sitting in the stand-by lounge chatting to the Taliban, not a good thing.

I hope when the Allies retreated from Korea it was more orderly than Vietnam or Afghanistan, and you didn't have to sit on the wings of a plane or hang from the fuselage.

I see this and I know why I am a pacifist.

The British were in Afghanistan and suffered the ‘disaster of Afghanistan’

First Anglo-Afghan War - Wikipedia

“The First Anglo-Afghan War, also known by the British as the Disaster in Afghanistan was fought between the British Empire and the Emirate of Afghanistan from 1839 to 1842.”

The Soviets were in Afghanistan and had to get out.

soviet afghanistan war end

Afghanistan became the Soviet Union’s Vietnam: an expensive, embarrassing war with little hope of victory, where they were beaten by local guerrilla forces. It dragged on until 1988 when the Soviet leader, who by then was Mikhail Gorbachev, signed a deal to end the war and the last Soviet troops left Afghanistan in February 1989.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, 1979 - The Col…
bbc.co.uk

The US outstupided the British and the Soviets

Paul,
You can’t really be as dumb as you try to make out, you can’t fool me, I know that you are aware that the Allies didn’t retreat in confusion from Korea , they are still there.

There are 28,500 US Service personnel in that country and enjoying their stay.

Whatever way you look at it, Afghanistan is a monumental stuff-up; we’re lucky that our intelligence services gave us one day’s warning.

Good question Is Mise.

Didn't Democrat Congressman Charlie Wilson want to spend more money on education in Afghanistan after kicking the Russians out?

It took hundreds of years for Britain to reach the contemporary era- Afghanistan is between China and Europe and India and the Mid East very contentious part of the world and coupled with world stability. It might be the proverbial canary.

Hi Issy,

Great result for the Imperialists in Korea, 70 years later and no unification, a crazy dictatorship running the country, that's in the South, there's an absolute nut job running the North, and 28,500 American mercenaries on the ground. Korea is a worse result than Vietnam. Post WWII both Korea and Vietnam should have exercised 'self determination', something the warmongers of the West would not allow.

The truth is none of the wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan etc were fought by the West, should I say America, others involvment was only tokenism, for the ideals of "freedom and democracy", rather they were fought for their own selfish interests of political and economic advantage. The American economy grew strong on war, it fed the military/industrial complex that Eisenhower spoke of in 1961. Now America is in decline and war is the only alternative to restore their position of power and dominance. China is a threat to World peace, America is a much greater threat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-jvHynP9Y&ab_channel=USNationalArchives

Paul,
Sure it’s a great result, not all our imports come from China.

President Trump signed Afghanistan over to the Taliban over a year ago. Why are people surprised the Afghan armed forces weren't willing to do anything other than recognise that reality and lessen the potential harm to both themselves and their families and by laying down their arms?

That there should be panic among those who tied themselves to the invading forces is also perfectly understandable.

What other scenario do people imagine might have happened here once the die was set?

AFGHAN INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS ESCAPE

Approx 40 senior officials in the Taliban ousted Afghan government have been smuggled to Turkey in recent days. They include Afghanistan’s intelligence chief. The Afghan officials were smuggled out of Taliban-controlled Afghanistan by Turkish military and intelligence operatives. The latter reportedly hid the officials among crowds of Turkish citizens who were evacuated from Kabul in recent days, as Taliban entered Kabul.

AIR EVACUATION FROM KABUL AIRPORT LIKELY TO END AS AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN ENTERING/LEAVING AIRPORT

The Taliban have not yet shot down US military transport aircraft carrying refugees from Kabul Airport due to the Taliban's deal months ago with the US goverment - probably lubricated by money to the Taliban. This deal is set to end in a week, on 31 August.

The Taliban are not a monolithic army, but many tribal groups given the "Taliban" label. Some groups may ignore the deal and fire on the aircraft before the 31 August deadline/"redline".

The US transport aircraft can be seen dropping flares leaving Kabul Airport to draw off Taliban shoulder fired heat seeking "smart" missiles.

The Taliban are aware that the aircraft are not safe from RPG7 "dumb" missiles that cannot be jammed or drawn off by flares.

Also the Taliban's heavy (50 cal up) machineguns, particularly with tracer, can shoot down aircraft. Such machineguns (up to 14.5mm) were made in Russia and sold through many middle men.

But the majority of the heavy machineguns are US made 50 cal M2 Brownings gifted by the US to the Afghan Army who, in turn, gifted them to the Taliban, overy the last few weeks.

Are we ng how moderate Muslims stand up to pressure from radical Muslims?

Of course, our moderate Muslims could not be coerced by radicals; comforting.

Many seem to not remember why the US went into Afghanistan.
The attack on the World Trade centre was planned in that country and
the Al Quaidi trained there for other terrorist actions.
Isis also had a protected place there.

This is the way it should be done.
The lesson from this is If you attack me/us like this we will come and
destroy your cities and economy, then leave and leave you to clean up
your own mess and make it as hard as possible for you to recover.
Got it ?

My nephew who spent two periods in Afganistan can tell you that the Muslims saw them as infidels even though he is a devout Christian. If you are a devout Muslim all other people are infidels, so it is the religion that unites them to the Taliban. If you are not devout or a woman you will want to get out of Afganistan.

America offered these a repreve from religious repression for a period.

Dear Josephus,

Don't devout Christians see devout members of other religions as infidels? Haven't they burned at the stake, crushed with stones, locked in iron maidens, subjected to torture and dealt with heretics, Jews, Christians of other sects and others who differ in various unpleasant ways? Christianity has a long history of religious repression. The intolerance of Christianity has been tamed by the secular state which doesn't concern itself with what people believe or don't believe.

david f, you are ignorant of how those who follow the example of Jesus Messiah behave. A devout follower of Christ sees everyone as a potential saint, What you purpose is ignorant of the teaching of Christ, many who follow the State Religion of Rome might behave with such burnings etc. Did the USA Australia and Britian and those that served in Afganistan use such methods because they were Muslim? No! It just happens you are an idiot to suggest such nonsense.

It was myb suggestion Afganistan fell because to them the infidels had left and it meant only the devout Muslims on both sides remained.

Yes David F, those things were done, but what is suggested is that
after 1400 years nothing has changed in Islam. There is no intention
of changing and it is blasphemous to even suggest a change and some
will impose the death penalty just for the suggestion.

Dear Josephus,

I wish I were ignorant of the way followers of Jesus behave. Their intolerance and evil is written in blood. The intolerance was expressed by Jesus.

In Matthew 12:30, Jesus says explicitly: “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.” That is: Jesus says, “You cannot be neutral with regard to me.

I don't wish to be an enemy of Jesus or Christians. However, I don't want to follow him. According to the intolerant Jesus that makes me an enemy. Christians talk of peace and make war.

Dear Bazz,

The Taliban does not represent all Muslims. After 1400 years of Christianity the Christian Inquisition was followed by the Wars of the Reformation. However, that didn't represent all of Christianity any more than the Taliban represents all Muslims. Even though Christianity has done good things, in my reading of history it has done more harm.

However, Christian intolerance was in full flower when the Christian nation of Germany murdered 6,000,000 Jews inspired by the words of a founder of a Christian denomination, Martin Luther.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

Hitler, although he had some doubts, was a true Christian. The Nazis saw to it that Germans were aware of the words of Martin Luther.

Hopefully, people of good will will reject both Christianity and Islam and will be guided by reason and compassion.

From David F's link-

This is interesting-

*Luther was initially apparently supportive of Hebrews

Luther's first comment on the Jews- a letter written to George Spalatin 1514:

Conversion of the Jews will be the work of God alone operating from within, and not of man working — or rather playing — from without. If these offences be taken away, worse will follow. For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction.

In 1519, Luther challenged Servitus Judaeorum ("Servitude of the Jews"). "Absurd theologians defend hatred for the Jews. Jew(‘s won’t join us from) the cruelty we wreak on them—our behavior towards them we- resemble- beasts?"

In his 1523 essay That Jesus Christ Was Born a Jew, Luther condemned treatment of the Jews and urged Christians to treat them kindly. Luther's desire was that Jews would convert to Christianity.

*Luther changed his mind

In August 1536 Luther's prince, Elector of Saxony John Frederick, prohibited Jews from inhabiting, business, or passing through. Rabbi Josel of Rosheim, asked a reformer Wolfgang Capito to approach Luther in order to obtain an audience with the prince, Luther refused. Responding Luther referred to his unsuccessful attempts to convert the Jews: "... I would willingly do my best for your people but I will not contribute to your [Jewish] obstinacy by my own kind actions. You must find another intermediary with my good lord." Heiko Oberman notes this event as significant in Luther's attitude toward the Jews: "Even today this refusal is often judged to be the decisive turning point in Luther's career from friendliness to hostility toward the Jews."

Josel of Rosheim, helping Jews of Saxony, wrote "due to that priest whose name was Martin Luther — may his body and soul be bound up in hell!! — who wrote and issued many heretical books in which he said that whoever would help the Jews was doomed to perdition."

*Hebrew Josel of Rosheim also came to hate Martin Luther.

Perhaps Martin Luther came to the view that Hebrew intolerance of the views of other cultures and their "incorrigibility" had led to their rejection by these same cultures. The fact that Hebrews didn't have their own territory seemingly forced Hebrews into the same situations again and again. I'm not sure why the Hebrews with their skill for business logistics didn't cut their own territory but maybe they were too few in numbers to do so. Maybe we need to look to the Talmud and the Torah to understand their perception.

Both Catholic and Islamic Empires were probably too powerful by the 1500's for the Hebrew's to challenge directly. Hebrew's don't generally seem to be empire builders or explorers though in contemporary US they seem to dominate the physical sciences

I watched an interview with this bloke in Afghanistan, his head was wrapped in a bedsheet, so I couldn't check him out. This bloke claimed to be a member of ISIS-K, having previously been a member of the Taliban. Seems he was upset that the Taliban had gone legit, a bunch of softies, and were now a conservative mob in his opinion. Maybe they can join the Mad Mullah's Afghan Conservative Party, now they're gone all "legit". Allah forbid they could even start hanging pics of Ronnie and Maggie on the walls of the Mosque, even install a bar in the corner, you never know. What got up Mr ISIS-K nose was these bleeding heart liberals in the Taliban hadn't done a decent beheading in months, not even a stoning to death for Christ sake, I mean Allah's sake! Well after all George W had the nice guys from Afghanistan over for dinner, or something before the twin towers blew up, that did put a dampener on thing. Joe's on first name basis with the Taliban Funsters; "Hi Mahammad"...."Hi Joe" ...."How's it hanging with you"..."Not bad Joe, gotta go Uber eats just dropped me Macca's order, my favourite, An Infidel on a bun, see ya."..." Jesus! that's nice, see ya."...."Don't say Jesus, its Allah Joe."

The behavior of the various tribes of Afghans makes me wonder if
they follow the practice of Arab muslims of traditionally marrying their cousins.
Is it a practice of all moslems ?
It would explain some of their behaviors as a culture.

David f for you to claim Hitler was a true Christian identifies you as insane. [Not able to read history] The true Christians were hiding Jews and secretely getting them out of Germany. Hitler was a madman attacking the true Christians in Britian etc - they were bearing the blunt of this evil man. He was no model to identify as Christ. You need to deal with the chip on your shoulder.

The hope for Afganistan and Christians there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XpplgBHq2o

Dear Josephus,

The Catholic Church signed a Concordat with Hitler. Most Lutheran churches supported Hitler. Would Catholics and Lutherans support someone they did not consider a true Christian? The genocide of the Jews by the Nazis was accepted because of the promotion of centuries of Jew hatred by Christians. Some Christians opposed Hitler, but the majority supported him and his hate. If Hitler was not regarded as a true Christian he would not have been enthusiastically supported by a Christian country. He didn't seize power. He took power by democratic means because Christian Germany supported him. You are trying to deny history. You are a hypocrit, Josephus. You don't like what Hitler so you call me insane. Christians fought for Hitler. Christians operated the camps. Christians murdered 6,000,000 Jews and a lot of other people. You want to deny the truth so you call me insane.

David f, I have a close German friend now 102 years of age who was conscripted into the German Army. He had no choice in joining, he was forced to fight for Germany. He hated Hitler and what Hitler did to Germany.

Dear Josephus,

Your friend had a choice. He could have refused, but he was unwilling to suffer the consequences had he refused. One heroic Christian refused to fight for Hitler and was executed. You can look up Franz Jägerstätter on the net. The officials of his church tried to persuade him to serve Hitler. He was lonely in his opposition.Had there been many like Franz Jägerstätter Hitler would never have been in power, but most Christians supported him. I also have German friends who served in Hitler's armies. Some felt guilty about it after the war. The fact is that had most Christians opposed him he would never have taken power. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf which told what he wanted to do, and many Germans supported it. Unfortunately, Christians have supported many bad things. Some try to rewrite history and deny it.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/story-austrian-catholic-resister-franz-jagerstatter tells the story of one of the few Christians who refused to go along.

"A History of Christianity" was written by Diarmaid MacCulloch, Professor of Church History at Oxford. Read it and learn a little.

david f, your view of Christ and his teachings is distorted. Most History is Roman Catholism not the history of people of the WAY.Learn the difference.

Dear Josephus,

Please remove the hate from your heart. Unfortunately although Christians talk of love Christians practice hate. Not only do Christians hate non-Christians, but they hate Christians of another branch.

Unfortunately, the Abrahamic religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all vehicles of hate and intolerance. Josephus wrote: “What you purpose is ignorant of the teaching of Christ, many who follow the State Religion of Rome might behave with such burnings etc.” By the ”Religion of Rome” it is reasonable to assume that Josephus meant his fellow Christians, the Catholics. He apparently has no love in his heart for his fellow Christians of another denomination.

Christ, himself, was intolerant as I pointed out in my previous post. He regarded those who didn’t follow him as the enemy.

Why did Luther turn against the Jews? Luther thought that Jews rejected Christianity because of the corruption of the Catholic Church. When he founded a new religion independent of the Catholic Church and Jews did not follow him, Luther adopted the attitude of the intolerant Jesus (He who is not with me is against me.) and hated Jews.

The other main founders of Protestantism were John Calvin of Geneva and King Henry the Eighth of England. John Calvin set up a totalitarian government in Geneva and had Servetus, a scientist who doubted the Trinity burned at the stake. My article about it is at:

https://onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=10725

Servetus was burned at the state because he doubted the Trinity.

Henry VIII founded a new religion because he wanted a divorce and the Catholic Church wouldn’t give him one.

The largest Protestant denomination in the United States is the Southern Baptist Convention. The SBC separated from the other Baptists because the SBC supported slavery.

Southern Baptist Convention - Wikipedia

They found support for it in the Bible which accepts slavery. In the New Testament slaves are advised to be obedient to their masters.

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-5.htm

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything, not only to please them while they are watching, but with sincerity of heart and fear of the Lord

continued

The history of World War II is bleak.
Christians, Jews, Germans, Russians, members
of all nations, caught in the merciless war.

No faith, no nationality, no race, were free of
cowards or collaborators. No group was spared from
killers and traitors in its midst. Some of these
villains perished, some were captured and punished,
for the most part shortly after the conclusion of
the war. Others escaped retribution, dying, as did
the evil dictators - Stalin and Hitler. - the
evil architects themselves - without being brought
to justice.

However there were numerous courageous men and
women who refused to participate in the subjugation and
destruction of the targeted groups and individuals. There
were Christians who interceded with their lives to save
persecuted Jews. There were Jews who died in their attempts
to save Christians. They died, some along with
their entire families, or accepted their fates in
concentration camps rather than betray their fellow human
beings.

Some are known, but most perished and are known only to
God. These heroes embody human nobility in its highest
form and stand as beacons in the otherwise bleak history
of World War II.

continued

The New Testament also supports slavery in the following,

1 Timothy 6:1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as fully worthy of honor, so that God's name and our teaching will not be discredited.

Is the God of the Jewish Bible any better? In the Book of Joshua he commands genocide the Israelites to commit genocide, and Joshua carries out genocide.

Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Not only did the Israelites kill all the people, but they also killed all the domestic animals. Any God that would command that atrocious behaviour is unworthy of worship.

In the New Testament Jesus said, “By their fruit you will recognize them.” Matthew 7:16

The Inquisition, the Wars of the Reformation where Protestants and Catholics killed each other, stealing the land of indigenous people are some of the fruits. Importing slaves and fighting to keep people in slavery in the US Civil War are other fruits. The Protestant South formed the KKK after the Civil War. They specialized in lynching blacks but also hated Jews and Catholics.

I don’t know whether Protestants or Catholics were more inhumane. However, I don’t think either sect has a right to lord it over the other.

The words of Jesus:

Matthew 7:3-5 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Dear Foxy,

There were worthy, courageous, heroic and self-sacrificing people of all faiths and ethnic groups, but no group has any right to denigrate those who belong to another group. No group can claim that all belonging to his or her group are righteous or that all belonging to another group are villainous. However, there is a tendency to rewrite history and ignore the plank in your own eye.

Dear David f.,

I totally agree. That's why I pointed out
that no faith, no nationality, no race, was
free of cowards or collaborators. That no
group was spared from killers and traitors in
their midst. Just as there were numerous
courageous men and women who refused to
participate in the subjugation and destruction of
the targeted groups and individuals.

As the old adage tells us:

If your religion requires you to hate someone.
You need a new religion.

My brothers family who live in israel are Orthodox Jews. So you have no idea of Christian relationships to Jews. You try to paint every Christian in the image of Roman Catholic opression.

Josephus,
Obviously you don’t like Roman Catholics, how do you feel about Eastern Catholics?

David f,

My distant relative Mons. Hugh O’ Flaherty, TheScarlet Pimpernel of the Vatican, got around 6,000 Jews and Allied escapees etc., out of the reach of the Nazis during WWII, he did all this with the tacit consent of the Pope and considerable help from the Swiss Guard.

Is Mise, I do not hate Roman Catholics, but many of them have a history of violence. The first school I attended was Catholic run by nuns and the Priest came each month for confession so i got my share of beatings from the nuns before going to a public school.

Slavery as we know it now was in some civilisations not the human
rights concern as it is now.
As civilisation developed slavery was no longer needed to advance
economically and it morphed into Feudalism where peasants lived and
farmed on the land of the Lord of the Manor.
The Romans brought slavery to Britain and after their departure there
were changes that continued under the Normans.
This gradually changed and the Plague caused such a depletion of the
peasantry that the relationship between those occupying the land and
the landowner changed forever and was changed legally.
Slavery ended because it was contrary to the beliefs of the times and
was expensive to hold slaves.
Then Feudalism ended with the establishment of factories at the onset of the industrial revolution.

cont:
So what we see is an economic model progression from slavery to the
present workplace laws over many centuries.
It would probably have been impossible to have bypassed the individual
steps along the way.
However some civilisations want to have stopped at slavery as in parts
of the Islamic world, especially in Africa, slavery is still practised.
This is I believe because the Koran describes the proper way to treat
your slaves and so gives approval to the practise.
Sex slaves are especially approved and regulated in the Koran, and
specifies how they may be taken by force.
Just as one of the Bil Al sex slave gang might be released from the
Goulburn Super Max after 20 odd years.
A clash of civilisations ?

Watching the Taliban on the telly, I see they all shop for their gear in the same place 'Millers' ladies fashions, it all comes off the $10 rack! On the other hand they could do a decent ad for 'OMO', whites, whiter than white, but I don't think they'll get a gig with the 'Gillette' company any time soon. Anyway they're got business, like renaming that Hamid Karzai Airport to the Mad Mullah Airport. I can just hear the pilot now; "We are approaching Mad Mullah Airport, expecting flak on the port side, prepare to bailout!"

Dear Josephus,

You spoke of the Catholic history of violence. It is doubtful that Protestants are less violent. Let me remind you of some of the instances of Protestant violence. The Wars of the Reformation were fought between Protestants and Catholics. I don’t think one side was more violent than the other. Burning people at the stake and burning witches went on in Protestant Massachusetts, Protestant Geneva and other Protestant areas. The Protestant British Empire was the product of many acts of violence. The Protestant southern United States carried on a war for slavery. After the war they established the KKK which hated blacks, Catholics and Jews and carried out lynchings. The predominantly Protestant Nazi Germany was noted for its violence and genocide.

The words of Jesus are appropriate:

Matthew 7:3-5 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

david, you are blind to what is the present day.

My concern is for Afganistan and its people today, during my history.
It is my time in history now.
Do you pray for these people that they might be enlightened of more humane values as taught by Jesus? They hold him as a holy prophet.
If not I have no interest in your atheistic power squabble.

Dear Josephus,

Of course, I don't pray. There is nothing to pray to.

Jesus said: "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me” (Matthew 10:37).

I don't think any religious leader who would want someone to put him above one's family is worthy. Jesus is unworthy of me.

However, people of any belief or absence of belief should be treated with consideration. I wish you well and hope you will be considerate of all including your family.

At least every Muslim prays three times each day, and God might open their minds to what Jesus meant by loving his way, his truth, his life; as most ignorant kafir atheists have no clue.

I see Australia finally got a mention, some Yank politician said; "The Taliban have more Black Hawk helicopters than Australia." What, they have two? Just to add the Tallylads love those armour plated beach buggies the Yanks left behind. Hooning down the main drag of K-bull do n' doughnuts, shootn' off the live ammo in all directions. Wow, the lads would be loven it, haven' such fun!

Dear Josephus,

Christianity contradicts both Judaism and Islam. Unlike Christianity with its multiplicity of creeds, Judaism and Islam each have one statement of faith. Judaism - “Hear, O israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is one." Islam – “There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.”

Both Jews and Muslims are strict monotheists. The triune god of Christianity contradicts the God Jews and Muslims believe in. God is their only divine figure. That excludes both the triune god of Christianity and the divinity of Jesus.

Christians have their superstition, and Jews and Muslims have their superstitions. We need no superstitions. However, we live in a civilized society, and everybody has a right to believe in anything as long as they don't bug other people.

Paul, The American Generals stated all the equipment left behing was made dysfunctional, and to make it functional would need to resource from USA.
davidf. I am not a trinitarian as you seem to imply. I follow the teachings of the "way"- There is one God in all and over all.. Before Constantine made it a State religion and called it Christian. My life in not baesd in a religion it is based in a relationship with my Creator.

Dear Josephus,

I agree with you about Constantine. I think there should be separation between church and state. The Baptist minister, Roger Williams, was possibly the first to use the expression, separation of church and state. He presided over Rhode Island colony which was the first unit of government anywhere in the world to have separation of church and state as an official policy.

From Barry's "Roger Williams and The Creation of the American Soul"

"The Bay's leaders, both lay and clergy, firmly believed that the state must enforce all of God's laws, and to do so the state had to prevent error in religion. This conviction they held fast to, for their souls and all the souls in Massachusetts plantation depended upon it.

Williams recognized that putting the state to that service required humans to interpret God's law. His views were not fully formed-how Massachusetts dealt with him would itself influence their formulation-but he believed that humans, being imperfect, would inevitably err in applying God's law. Hence, he concluded that a society built on the principles that Massachusetts espoused could at best only lead to hypocrisy, for he believed that forced worship "stinks in God's nostrils." At worst it would lead to a corruption not of the state which was already corrupt, but of the church, as it befouled itself with the state's errors. His understandings were edging him toward a belief he would later call "Soul Libertie." pp. 3-4.

I admire Roger Williams. Look him up on the net.

Dear Josephus,

I want to live with you and everybody else in peace. If I push my ideas on you or you push your ideas on me we are not going to live in peace. I am not going to accept your ideas, and you are not going to accept my ideas. The way to live peacefully is to accept that other people have different ideas from yours rather than trying to push your ideas on them. I don't think that Jesus is a good example on how to live. In previous posts I have given examples of why I think that. You disagree. Fine. Let's just accept the fact that we disagree and live together in peace. The way to live together peacefully is to accept that others think differently from us. We can tell each other what we believe, but it is unreasonable to expect others to believe what we believe.

Hi Jose'

The Taliban got heaps of war equipment (American) in working order from the fleeing Afghan Army. The Yanks did destroy millions of dollars worth of their war equipment, another obscenity of war. I'm not saying we should be best buddies with the Taliban, but for the sake of the innocent Afghan people a different approach with peace and the wellbeing of the Afghans themselves as the objectives may result in better outcomes. War is certainly not the answer, war is never the right answer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/01/asia/taliban-kandahar-captured-weapons-intl/index.html

From a BBC broadcast there are enormous queues at banks where people
can only withdraw US$200 a week. There is a risk the banks will run
out of money as the World Bank has stopped sending its every Sunday
shipment of cash. The World bank has to be assured that the Taliban
is the legal successor to the previous government.

The Taliban must be well aware that if they revert to form they will
not be able to get cash and everything will stop.

Let's just be glad that we are shot of Afghanistan, and our stupid government is stopped, by the Taliban, from bringing "refugees" (who should be fighting for their country) here. We owe them nothing.