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The Forum > General Discussion > Pfizer Vs Astra Zeneca - To vaccinate or wait?

Pfizer Vs Astra Zeneca - To vaccinate or wait?

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We've been tossing up whether to vaccinate or
not. I've recently had an ultrasound done at
the Austin Hospital here in Melbourne and was
told that I still have blood clots on my lungs.
My husband has recently had surgeries on his back
and neck. We would prefer the Pfizer vaccine and
are waiting for it to become available in hopefully
August because we simply don't trust the Astra/Seneca
jab - being the cheapest.

How do others feel about the vaccine - and which one?
August is not that far off - and why did our Government
not get more of the Pfizer when other countries were able to?
Is it because it's the most expensive - and the Government is
penny-pinching? I hope not.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 July 2021 11:29:42 AM
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Wait!

So long as we are not allowed to obtain/import our own vaccines, only to lick the government's bottom and take whatever it wants us to have, then once we take a particular vaccine we will be stuck with it forever.

So if you get AstraZeneca now, then they will not allow you to get the superior Pfizer (or Moderna) later, even when it is finally available, so overall you would lose, especially once the borders are opened and encounters with the virus switch from a risk into a certainty. For now, best just stay home and be safe.

If I ever be allowed again to visit my family in Israel, which already received their Pfizer vaccines last December, while I only had AstraZeneca, then they would place me in quarantine there because Israel recognises only Pfizer and Moderna. I trust the Israeli medical experts far more than I can trust their Australian counterparts.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 19 July 2021 2:26:03 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank You for the advice.

Ig matches my gut feelings about all this as well.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 July 2021 3:08:01 PM
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People who can't make up their own minds should not expect advise from others.

Yuyutsu,

The covid vaccine will in time become the same as the influenza vaccine; it will probably be combined with the flu shot, and varied each year as the flu shot is now: free for seniors, charged to others if they want it, and different every year. Brands won't matter.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 19 July 2021 3:56:35 PM
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Well I'm going to go with 'none of the above'.
I don't want no covid.
I don't want no vaccine.

So there's my personal 'I don't trust any of this' bias acknowledged.

That said, I don't know if I'd be running to get the vaccine if you have history of blood clots Foxy, especially on the lungs.

I'm not a medical doctor, and I don't know if or by how much your previous condition increases risk for you.

But I'll tell you something.
The government don't really care about peoples health.
They're playing a numbers game trying to get everyone to take it, regardless of any allergies or other conditions you have or have had.

I'm not going to tell you what you should do.
It's a decision you have to make yourself, and there are risks either way.
What does your conscience say?
Do you actually trust these 'vaccines'?
Are you willing to bet your life on it?

I wish you the best, whatever path you choose.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 19 July 2021 5:01:54 PM
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Typical, let others take the plunge to see if it's safe ! Apparently, they've already found something in Pfizer that is being monitored.
Those who wait to see how others fare, should be last to be vaccinated !
Posted by individual, Monday, 19 July 2021 5:33:25 PM
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Hi Foxy,

The answer is, seek medical advice.

My son 37 is a public transport bus driver in Sydney, he's in perfect health, went last week to his GP, concerned with not being vaccinated. His doctor said point blank, at this stage wait for Pfizer. He tried to book online but was denied. Public transport has been cut back to Sunday timetable so he'll be working 1 day in 3. All thanks to the stuff ups by Berejiklian and Morrison.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 19 July 2021 5:55:53 PM
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Dear Ttbn,

«The covid vaccine will in time become the same as the influenza vaccine; it will probably be combined with the flu shot, and varied each year as the flu shot is now»

Are you a prophet?

What you described is one of the possible scenarios.

The best scenario is that COVID will be eliminated, possibly as a result of new vaccines that are currently being developed that will cover all existing and future mutations all at once. They could also be taken orally, which means that everyone around the world will have easy access to them.

Another good scenario is a medicine, that is now being tested and should be ready in about a year, so anyone who even suspects of being infected will take a pill and not get sick, nor infect others.

The next scenario is that the virus evolves in a way that will make it harmless, so everyone will have it but no steps need be taken.

Then there are scenarios worse than the one you introduced:

The virus could also mutate into a more virulent form, something like Ebola even, perhaps, which would kill 80-90% of those infected, then too few would remain to design, produce and distribute any vaccines.

It may not be that bad if the earth is relieved of much of its human burden, but from a human point of view, if you want to avoid that scenario, to reduce the number of new mutations, the overall number of cases must be minimised, and for that we must continue just what we already do: testing, tracing, isolation, distancing, vaccination and medication.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 19 July 2021 6:44:15 PM
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Those who wait to see how others fare will, as a matter of course, be the last to be vaccinated.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 19 July 2021 7:34:46 PM
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I'm happy to go last individual
- Or not at all preferably.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 19 July 2021 7:50:34 PM
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We haven't heard the last of Ebola yet Yuyutsu, just wait patiently it'll come.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 19 July 2021 7:55:25 PM
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I am perfectly happy to be the last to be vaccinated. In fact I'm perfectly happy to never be vaccinated.

What I am not happy about is not being allowed to use Hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin as a prophylactic rather than these so called vaccines.

The evidence is far to wide that particularly Ivermectin is very effective when combined with zinc & vitamin D in stopping the virus in it's tracks when used as soon as, or before symptoms appear for it to be banned. With long term evidence that both are pretty safe, I took Hydroxychloroquine for years in the islands, it smells fishy that the establishment are so against them here.

Could it be as simple as anti Trump, or is there another reason that the things that quelled Indias & now is reducing Indonesias problem is banned here.

When I spoke to my doctor about the vaccine he said he would not try to influence me, but I definitely should have the normal flew shot I've been having for years, saying the flew could kill me. To me, what he didn't say spoke very loudly.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 19 July 2021 8:26:23 PM
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Dear Hasbeen,

As much as I think that Hydroxychloroquine is useless or even harmful, I will fight for your freedom to take it.

Anyone ought to have the freedom to poison themselves, so long as they don't hurt others in the process.

It is very wrong for the state to limit what chemicals/medicines/drugs you put into your body - but it would be equally wrong of you to put such things into your body, then to expect the state to pay for trying to repair the damage.

---

Dear Critic,

«We haven't heard the last of Ebola yet Yuyutsu, just wait patiently it'll come.»

Do you have a secret lab?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 19 July 2021 8:56:11 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,

I don't know that fighting for Hassy's unalienable right to poison himself is such a great idea, although it would be much desired by many in the community, the self inflicted poisoning that is, not the fighting for the right to do so.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 6:41:41 AM
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Dear Paul,

Mud is dirty, it can also cause health problems if you put it in your mouth, but this should not stop us from allowing our toddlers to play in the mud. They need to experience, to learn.

I am not fighting for Hasbeen's rights, but for his freedom.
It might sound pedantic, but it makes a world of difference:
Freedom is God-given, rights are man-given.
I do not advocate for giving Hasbeen any rights to poison himself (and then to have us, taxpayers, foot the bill), only for refraining from robbing him of his God-given freedom.

We are faced with a secular government that has no way of telling right from wrong. Sometimes it gets things right by chance, but at other times it gets things very wrong. If we want to protect that which is good and healthy, we must keep government away from the selection process.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 7:14:01 AM
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I believe that in the UK and Europe people can
choose the vaccine they prefer amongst at least five
vaccines. Why can't we in Australia have a choice?
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 9:34:16 AM
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It's pathetic that anyone should ask people they don't know - that's everyone on OLO - if they should get vaccinated or not. If you can't make up your own minds, you should be in care. The only person you should even dream of asking is your own GP - not the "experts" or the media or politicians, and certainly not anyone on social media.

I don't give a continental what anyone else does. I've been vaccinated and I'm fine. The WuFlu will never be eradicated; very few people who get it will die, get sick or even know they have it unless they allow themselves to be bullied or frightened into getting tested.

Stop peeing your pants. The inconvenience caused by useless lockdowns and restrictions is the real killer
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 10:06:06 AM
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Here's a joke from Spectator on the stupidity of the premier of my own state and the po-faced sheila pulling his strings (the one who ordered kids not to touch a football handled by Victorians):

"In South Australia, three community-transmitted cases of WuFlu are causing the semi-shutdown of the entire state. Premier Steven Marshall obviously doesn’t realise the virus doesn’t want to visit SA, let alone live there".
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 10:14:32 AM
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Folks,

Have a read of my opening post. I did not ask anyone
whether or not my husband and I should get the vaccines.
I simply asked the question as to what people felt
about the vaccines - trying to find out what their
preferences were. Not what we should do. And as not
many people are choosing to be vaccinated - and
Australia is a country that is not being given a
choice in their choice of vaccines this is a legitimate
topic for discussion. Which even the Forum Administrator
has approved.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 10:16:02 AM
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SA jokes aside, the idiots have just put us in lockdown from 6pm today because of two new cases and ‘singing and loud talking at one restaurant’ (the silly sheila’s actual words). No exemptions for vaccinated people, of course: still confined to barracks. That’s another complication for the ‘will I, won’t I’ cohort to worry themselves with.

Don’t rely on masks. Professor Colin Axon, a British scientist who has been advising the British government’s Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE) about preventing the spread of infection, claims that masks are as useless as tits on a bull. They are merely ‘comfort blankets’, he says, pointing out that not only can the virus force its way out the top of a cloth mask, but pushes through gaps in the fabric invisible to the naked eye,and they are 500,0000 times the size of Covid particles! Do you ‘believe the science’?

Even the N95 masks the health professionals use are no absolute guarantee of preventing transmission. Masks are psychological rather than prophylactic tools. Compelling people to wear masks is about creating a climate of fear, of compliance, of permanent crisis. That suits our increasingly authoritarian political leaders, and certainly suits the unelected public health establishment determined to eliminate the uneliminateable, and who want you to cringe in their conviction that you doing so will make you more pliable and compliant with their edicts.

Interesting to see that Foxy admits to being just nosy, as usual, and attracting attention to herself.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 11:48:49 AM
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Interesting to see that ttbn is as always obsessing with
Foxy and telling everyone what she is thinking and
being. He talks about people we don't know on OLO
and then he proceeds to tell Foxy what she is thinking, doing,
and why. There's a word for that but I'm too polite to say it.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 12:13:48 PM
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cont'd ...

Pfizer will hopefully be abailable in August.
And of course we have every intention of being
vaccinated if allowed.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 12:19:18 PM
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The Pfizer vaccine has to be stored at minus -70 degrees so transport from manufacturers is more complex to distribute. Beside it was initially sent to areas with high mortality rates, Australia did not qualify, because we used isolation well until we began to bring in persons infected with Covid. Astra Zeneca is easily transported and distributed that is why Australia got it initially.

All injections can have side effects, I have friends in the USA who had Pfizer a one member in the family had reaction that left him in bed for four days. My daughter had Pfizer and she has a swollen arm for a week.
My wife and I have had the vaccines and neither had any side effects, others have had some side effects from Astra Zeneca.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 1:34:38 PM
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"There's a word" for people who talk about themselves in the third person - illeism - a sign of personality disorders which can include an inflated opinion of oneself: hardly surprising in Foxy's case.

And, I must beg everybody's pardon, it seems. I wasn't aware that I am not allowed to talk about "people we don't know on OLO". I hadn’t thought that Foxy would need a personal introduction to Professor Colin Axon, a British scientist who has been advising the British government’s Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE), or that she was incapable of looking him up. But I’m guessing the “we” who don’t know him, or can’t look him up, is really only Foxy.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 2:42:27 PM
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as to what people felt about the vaccines - trying to find out what their preferences were.
Foxy,
Unless they actually pay for a jab they should just be glad to get one at all. Pfizer is extremely difficult to keep at -70° so, those whingers & whiners should put their money where their mouth is ! It's damned bloody difficult enough to navigate past all the opposition sabotage & treachery, let alone getting the vials by the millions. This is no time for being choosey !
I had both AZ shots because I was too old for Pfizer. I'm just grateful I was on the list. Some conspiracy mongers say the Govt wants to kill us oldies off with AZ. I'd rather think they need to keep us longer to keep common sense alive !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 4:14:30 PM
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Dear Individual,

«Unless they actually pay for a jab they should just be glad to get one at all.»

Well that's exactly what I have been pleading the government - to allow me to pay for my vaccine as I am unwilling to accept free gifts from the tax-payer. There is currently no way to pay and no way to buy my own vaccine elsewhere, even if I were a billionaire. I am still awaiting their reply.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 4:49:55 PM
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I’m a healthy 85 year old and have been been jabbed all my life with vaccines which I feel have contributed to my good health. These have included diptheria, tetnus, polio, phneumoccal, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, and of course the annual flu shot. Together with several I received in the army. I really don’t understand the prevarication and fear of a new vaccine that comes along in several forms that can save your life and others. There are masses of extreme medical examples that might have a detrimental effect once administered. The birth control pill and blood clots are two that immediately come to mind which have no relationship to Covid at all and are far more common I understand with serious consequences occasionally, There are also side effects to all the vaccinations I have undertaken which I also understand can result in rare cases of death.
I have already had my first AstraZeneca and can’t wait to have my second this week. To me it’s a no-brainer. If everyone followed my example I feel sure the number of lives saved would be far higher than those caught by the virus by refusing or delaying such an easy and simple and free procedure. I, together with everyone I know who as undertaken the Covid jab, has had absolutely no noticeable effect at all.
Posted by snake, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 4:58:02 PM
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Hi Foxy,

Why can't we in Australia have a choice? Cause Stuff-Up Morrison put all our eggs in the AstraZenica basket, hoping it would win him an early election. Now AZ is pretty well gone down the gurgler with only limited usefulness and Morrison and co are making a complete stuff up of the vaccine roll-out, your choice is no choice at all.

My son, his partner and two small children live in a 2 bed unit in Sydney. They got a message by E-mail yesterday, not from NSW Health but from, wait for it, from the Strata Manager that "someone" has tested positive to Covid-19 in their units, one of three unit blocks. Rang the SM this morning, as far as they know "someone will contact you about what to do" as of 5.15pm this arvo no "someone" has made any contact at all. Son went off to work on afternoon shift. I said, maybe the "someone" is from NSW Health and they are too sick from the virus to call.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 5:36:43 PM
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Dear Paul,

That's a bit of a worry about your son.

Perhaps he and his family should go and get tested?

I wouldn't wait.

Let us know how things pan out.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 5:48:16 PM
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Dear Snake,

«I, together with everyone I know who as undertaken the Covid jab, has had absolutely no noticeable effect at all.»

Not yet noticeable, but you will notice it once sufficient quantities of mRNA vaccines will be available and you are prevented from having them to upgrade your immunity because you are told that you already received AstraZenica. In the long run, once borders are opened and the virus roams freely in the community, you will end up with a higher risk of catching COVID, becoming ill, very ill or even dying of it.

If I had the option of taking AstraZenica privately, really privately, paying for it and not having it registered in the government's data-base, so that I don't lose my chance to get Pfizer or Moderna when available, then I would probably take it despite the considerable risk.

---

Dear Paul,

«Now AZ is pretty well gone down the gurgler»

Well not completely, it can and should be sent to PNG as soon as it is manufactured, they cannot afford any better there. The more people vaccinated around the world, the less the chance of new nasty variants.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 5:54:28 PM
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There is currently no way to pay and no way to buy my own vaccine elsewhere,
Yuyutsu,
Our Govt has the same problem but the Paul1405's of this world can't understand that !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 6:01:33 PM
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Dear Individual,

«Our Govt has the same problem»

Huh? All they need is to tell me the price, whatever it costs them per vaccine dose, and a bank account where I can deposit my payment. Is that too difficult?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 6:59:27 PM
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Hi Foxy,

Yes, speaking to the daughter-in-law, she's a bit up in the air about it all, a bit anxious about it. If they have to spend 2 weeks in unit, the grandchildren will be a hand full. Maybe it is in one of the other 2 blocks. I said try looking up NSW Covid web site and find a number to ring.

Hi Yuyutsu,

"should be sent to PNG as soon as it is manufactured, they cannot afford any better" I know you mean well, but isn't that a rather pathetic indictment of us humans, the value we put on others lives, based on what they can or cannot afford.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 7:36:21 PM
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Everywhere I go, I see kids everywhere huddled in groups with no masks.
30 of them at the servo doorway being let in one at a time.
10 of them standing together with no masks at the traffic crossing.
- Hanging out at Hungry Jacks in groups with no masks on.
Like there's a pandemic for all of us, but there isn't one for them.
It's starting to really peeve me off...

1.5 metres !! Get Back !!
Stay the hell away from me you sniffly little coughing covid spreaders
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 8:30:38 PM
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Is that too difficult?
Yuyutsu,
Does vial production mean anything to you ? Such as literally billions of them ?
Do you really think they can be produced at the flick of a finger ?
Remember that only just over a year ago there wasn't even a vaccine for COVID-19 ?
You really do have some extremely unrealistic expectations !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 9:31:04 PM
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Dear Individual,

Vial production?
What are you speaking about?

The vials are already here and people are already getting their contents into their arms.

Most people are happy to receive them for free - I am not.
All I am asking, is to be able to pay government for my portion of a vial!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 July 2021 10:05:17 PM
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Yuyutsu,
You are paying ! Unless you're not paying Tax in which case you'd better contact the ATO !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 7:41:48 AM
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Dear Individual,

«You are paying !»

No, I am not. I pay tax but as it stands I do not get to pay for my vaccines. The money that goes into vaccines is pooled, not just from all current tax-payers, but also from future-generations tax-payers, because government is in debt. This means that at least some of the money that government pays for purchasing and administering the vaccines is taken from other people, both current and future tax-payers, who never willingly agreed to pay their taxes, that means against their will.

While there is nothing immoral about paying taxes, benefiting from other people's taxes is not up to my moral standards, so I demand government to allow me to pay for my vaccines. While they may steal and rob as they please (and stand for it before God on their day of judgement), I will not allow them to corrupt me and turn me into a thief or a robber of others.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 8:52:01 AM
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Yuyutsu,
Well, that's your view & I can't argue with that. My view is that, for many decades now Govts have allowed this situation to develop so, now it should be their turn to remedy this.
People too have travelled willy nilly & it was inevitable (I think I said so on OLO many years ago) that such an outbreak occurs. The starting gun was fired by Europe opening its borders & Australia was literally swamped by uncontrolled arrivals (illegal & illegal stayers).
We're now facing new strains of this virus yet we still see people flying in daily ??
My area is literally inundated by tourists from Victoria & NSW & it'll only be a matter of a few more weeks before we have to go into lockdown in the Bush as well.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 9:29:44 AM
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DearYuyutsu

Throughout this debate on OLO I am wondering where you are getting your certainty of facts and future speculation. Are you a scientist ? A pandemic such as this raises all sorts of problems and how to deal with them. Easy criticism is spread wide over its controlled management. I think it’ commendable that our government has managed to be one of the best in the world in trying to control something which can be seen in the number of casualties easily enough compared with any other country you could name. Knowledge is still thin on the ground and constantly changing and we are all on a steep learning curve. Some people’s expectations seem to based on nothing but conjecture and hypothesis. Hardly a firm and accurate basis for personal decision in my opinion. I prefer to listen to the people with far more medical training than I have.
Posted by snake, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 9:31:09 AM
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Dear Foxy,

Pretty simple really.

I have had the AZ vaccine in part because I wanted protection from the virus but also because I wanted do my bit.

Sure we have ended up with a cheap and less effective vaccine due to Morrison but in the end the differences after the second dose are not that great.

For those who have marched off an gotten a flu vaccine and now have Covid vaccine hesitancy please be aware there are plenty of risks around the flu vaccine and there have been many payouts in compensation as lawyers have a field day.

the flu vaccine has been reported to cause conditions such as:
Shoulder Injury
Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS)
Transverse Myelitis (TM)
Neuromyelitis optica (NMO)
Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis (ADEM)
CIDP
Optic neuritis
Brachial neuritis
Seizures
Peripheral neuropathy
Encephalopathy
Cerebellar ataxia
http://www.vaccineinjuryteam.com/national-vaccine-injury-compensation-program/influenza-flu-vaccine-/
Given that the flu deaths on 35 million flu cases in the US in 2018-19 were around 30,000 and the Covid deaths on roughly the same number of infections is over 600,000 I really don't get the hesitancy any more.

I won't get the full protection from the AZ until I get my second jab in a month. By then thanks to the Liberal NSW government this thing may well be going out of control.

If silly old buggers like Hasbeen want to rely on the rest of us providing him herd immunity then so be it. I'm absolutely positive that when his anti-vaxx cohorts are the ones dropping like flies he will get in line like the rest. If he doesn't he is too old for any natural selection gains for the rest of us but again so be it.

There are so many people in this world who would give their right arm to have the opportunity to gain some form of protection from this disease. It seems almost unseemly we aren't taking that opportunity ourselves.

Dear Hasbeen,

Here you go mate, grab as much as you want.
http://acs-pharmacy.com/order-plaquenil-online-en.html?t=serp&search=hydroxychloroquine&key=hydroxychloroquine
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 10:23:29 AM
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Dear Steele,

Thank You for your advice.

The reason for my hesitancy is the fact that my
recent ultrsound done in hospital showed up
the blood clots on my lungs.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 10:29:42 AM
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Dear Foxy,

And there is no need to risk exasperating that condition if the medical advice says it is an issue.

I was on blood thinners when I got mine and that was initially contra indicated. A discussion with my doctor revealed that it was no longer considered a risk factor so I went ahead especially as the thrombosis flagged wasn't pertinent to my situation.

"The condition causes thrombosis (blood clotting) and hrombocytopenia (low blood platelet counts). It is different from general clotting disorders such as deep vein thrombosis (DVT) or pulmonary embolism (PE). TTS can occur at different parts of the body, including the brain (called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis) and in the abdomen. The low level of blood platelets can potentially cause bleeding."

However with a risk factor at 6 in a million for over 50s very much pales against the risks with Covid.

Pfizer has issues around heart inflammation as well.

Make sure you get good advice and that you weigh up the risks properly
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 10:50:33 AM
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Come off the grass SR, you're not doing a damn thing for me. The only thing you are doing is to try to save your own miserable hide. Surely your google finger hasn't failed you.

It is well known that when a virus or microbe is inhibited, but not totally killed by a medication, it is much more likely to sport to try to bypass the effects of the medication. This is how antibiotic resistant microbes developed. Surprised you don't know this, or do you know but it doesn't suit your current line of bulldust to admit it.

Thus MATE, you are much more likely to help develop a true killer strain than I am.

Surely you must trust your jab to protect you, so what's your beef? Just want to have everyone ion your own crazy position?
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 11:32:46 AM
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Dear Steele,

I will definitely get a doctor's advice.
My specialist is on sabbatical but I'll
again check with my GP.

Thank you - your advice has re-assured me
a great deal.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 11:42:51 AM
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Dear Hasbeen,

Nah mate, you go on being as selfish as all get out.

We can't open back up until we get to a certain level of vaccinations. It is people like you who are wilfully lengthening out that time with your illogical pontifications.

Further a Covid vaccination dramatically lessens the chances of hospitalisation. Hey but you are on Medicare so it won't cost you anything. Never mind the three weeks you would likely tie up a hospital bed from someone far more deserving.

Look I get that you are invested in the right wing messaging from people like Katie Holmes. I understand that you are taking an ideological stand as idiotic as it may well be.

But don't think you won't get called out.

You are exhibiting all the characteristics of a true parasite on our community and you should really take a good. Hard look at yourself.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 1:10:48 PM
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Is this breaking news? Best hear the whole interview.
Comment about truth of a covid pandemic or not is vital.

http://www.bitchute.com/video/4FdvU43qOdfD/
Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 2:31:09 PM
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Great link JF Aus,
Worth public reporting.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 5:50:26 PM
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Dear JF and Josephus,

Fellas, really?

This bloke was completely debunked over a year ago and you two have exhumed the poor bastard and trotted him out again.

Yawn.

http://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/new-plandemic-video-peddles-misinformation-conspiracies/
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 8:16:24 PM
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SR,
The link I posted above earlier today was First published at 21:33 UTC on July 9th, 2021.

The fact check link you posted today is dated and updated earlier:
Posted on August 21, 2020 | Updated on June 29, 2021

How about you consider the new evidence in the July 9th, 2021 video interview and provide new evidence to the contrary. If you can.
Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 11:33:50 PM
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This all makes sense why Biden had to win in 2020 election to fund the World Health Oorganisation which Trump refused to fund. It is about World population control and the theatre of Climate Change promoted by the Media. Why Biden is funding abortion in 3rd world countries and the industry at home - as Pfizer uses aborted fetal parts in its vaccine. Identified by the Catholic Church who refused him and Polosi communion. Why the undercover journalist in the abortion clinic has 9 charges against him by Planned Parenthood for exposing the sale of fetal tissue to the drug companies. Why Biden is accepting the Green New Deal as the future to control the movements and ideas of the population.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 22 July 2021 9:22:44 AM
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Dear JF,

I'm sorry but why on earth should I troll through the claims of a person who has previously been totally debunked?

If there was a single one of his claims you thought might have stood up to decent scrutiny you would have posted it here.

The onus is entirely on you.

Dear Josephus,

No the Pfizer vaccine isn't made from aborted fetus parts you blithering idiot.

As to Biden not receiving communion they tried that on with Kerry when he was running for president. The push was led by the then Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the archbishop of Washington, D.C.. The good Cardinal has since been defrocked for sexual abuse of minors.

These same American Catholic leadership wrapped their arms around the serial sexual transgressor Trump because he went down the anti-abortion late in his presidency.

The Catholic leadership in the UK facilitated the Catholic wedding of twice divorced Boris Johnson and his quite pregnant girlfriend at Westminster of all places.

The deep hypocrisy just boggles the mind.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 22 July 2021 10:01:12 AM
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SR,

This thread is about health and safety of many people.
You sound like a tobacco addict refusing to discuss evidence and proof that smoking is dangerous and can lead to death. Or do you have shares in a drug company, or are you on their list of contractors?

I am not concerned about whether an author failed spelling in school or was wrong about opinion of toothpaste later in life, none of which proves an author is totally incorrect with recent opinion.
I suggest get over the ad hom and backstabbing and prove for example that the dated and numbered patent/s and what they are indicating are fake or incorrect or unjustified or whatever.

A decision to not get the vax and stay healthy and alive might depend on strength of your judgement of the actual patent evidence.
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 22 July 2021 1:02:14 PM
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Some in America I see want Fouchi tried for his involvement in vaccine developing the Covid strain release into the population as a climate change population reduction. He is truly Dr,Jekyl when it comes to his patents. and involvements in media hype.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 22 July 2021 3:41:40 PM
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Dear JF,

You state: “You sound like a tobacco addict refusing to discuss evidence and proof that smoking is dangerous and can lead to death.”

Which might just as easily be written as: “You sound like a pandemic denier refusing to discuss evidence and proof that Covid is dangerous and can lead to death.”

You go on to claim: “A decision to not get the vax and stay healthy and alive might depend on strength of your judgement of the actual patent evidence.”

Patent evidence? Why on earth do you think there is any?

You have refused to place or articulate any evidence whatsoever to be contested by the rest of us. Have a go ya mug.

Dear Josephus,

Mate, your grasp on reality is obviously tenuous in the extreme. Fauci is hardly seeking “climate change population reduction” with all his efforts trying to promote vaccinations now is he.

Half a jug of Koolaid and you seem lost to the rest of us. Do make an effort to retain some degree of logic in what you put on the page.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 22 July 2021 4:30:48 PM
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SR,

Your ad hominum in almost every paragraph at a time like this with covid restrictions crippling business and livelihood, is sickening.

Denier? You are a denier of respectable debate, a covid spin doctor maybe.
Your attitude is tantamount to that of a bully. No wonder people learn to avoid this site.

The patents on file are part of the evidence I was referring to.
Did you even watch the video?

http://www.bitchute.com/video/4FdvU43qOdfD/
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 22 July 2021 10:17:16 PM
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I think more people are dead this year from the vaccine than due to covid.
Two more reported today. Young too.
Hiding or cowering from discussion about truth of the covid situation is unfair and outrageous.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-22/two-deaths-linked-to-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-victoria-tasmania/100313344
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 22 July 2021 10:29:22 PM
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Dear JF,

Did you really write this?

"Your ad hominum in almost every paragraph at a time like this with covid restrictions crippling business and livelihood, is sickening. Denier? You are a denier of respectable debate, a covid spin doctor maybe. Your attitude is tantamount to that of a bully. No wonder people learn to avoid this site."

My God, the hubris of you.

You came at me with: "You sound like a tobacco addict refusing to discuss evidence and proof that smoking is dangerous and can lead to death. Or do you have shares in a drug company, or are you on their list of contractors?"

So you accuse me of being an addict, of ignoring risk of death, of corruptly dealing with the issue because of personal gain.

I reply with a comparatively mild retort:

Quote

Which might just as easily be written as: “You sound like a pandemic denier refusing to discuss evidence and proof that Covid is dangerous and can lead to death.”

End quote

Then you start sooking on with  "Your ad hominum in almost every paragraph" and "Your attitude is tantamount to that of a bully. No wonder people learn to avoid this site."

Mate, besides being totally hypocritical one of the very definitions of a bully is someone who is quite happy to dish it out but goes crying to the teacher when even the slightest bit comes back at them.

You are the very embodiment of what constitutes a bully.

And no this site isn't set up as a safe space for alt right folks like yourself, at least not yet. If being held to account has people like yourself avoiding the site then it is down to them not to me.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 23 July 2021 4:32:02 AM
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Morrison has made an admission of sorts that through his governments incomperdence the vaccine roll-out in this country has been a disaster. Months down the track and less than 15% of Australians are fully vaccinated. Despite medical advice that the AstraZeneca vaccine is a danger to those under 60, two people in their 40's died this week from complication with AstraZeneca, well done Scotty! Morrison is doing all he can to save his scrawny political hide by pushing the AZ vaccine onto those of high risk compared to the Pfizer product, which is safer and of higher potency. Now Morrison is trying to bully the medical advisers at ATAGI to push AZ despite its known dangers.

In New South Wales where the virus is out of control due to the incomperdence of the Berejiklian government, which firstly allowed the virus into the community by mismanagement of transport of infected air crew, the case of "Mr Limo Driver". Then to compound the incomperdence Berejiklian failed to act to protect public health with a snap lockdown, but chose to attempt to protect the profits of her business cronies! Is the Health Minister Hazzard held to account, is the Premier accountable, nothing to see here, no one, not a word. Gladys appears everyday at 11am looking forlorn, and crying into the cameras as she gives her daily grim report.

Unfortunately tar and feathering is no longer allowed in Australia, much the pity.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 23 July 2021 5:54:43 AM
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SR,

Twice at least you referred to "the rest of us", and "mug".
Who is your "us" gang? And what justification do you have to refer to à mug?

What I referred to is justified. You should understand addicted smokers often refuse to debate fact of their addiction and solutions.
And you SR are still refusing or failing to debate truth or not of the video I have posted.
It's not a games video, it's about life or death. Subject of this thread.
Two more reported dead.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-22/two-deaths-linked-to-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-victoria-tasmania/100313344
Posted by JF Aus, Friday, 23 July 2021 6:26:38 AM
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Pauliar,

Why are the left whingers such hypocrites? We have anti-vaxxers such as SR and Pauliar bagging the Astra Zeneca vaccine which is far more available and far easier to distribute and administer while blaming the government for the slower than planned rollout.

roughly 30% of Aus has been vaccinated to date with now free access to AZ being given to all and apparently, lots of more rational millennials are taking advantage of this.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 23 July 2021 1:15:12 PM
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Come on fellers. It is very cruel of you to suggest SR look at evidence. Hell if he actually had to look at evidence it would destroy his position on every subject
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 23 July 2021 11:04:06 PM
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shonkyminister, stay in NZ where Jacinda is keeping you safe. In NSW Crazy Gladys has declared a "national emergency" although she's only the state premier, what a crazy woman, she's lost the plot as the virus the Liberal let loose into the community runs amuck! NSW not only needs a lockdown it also needs a lockup for these unfit to lead Liberal politicians.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 24 July 2021 6:48:01 AM
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Fauchi involved in creating virus not naturally transmitted in nature.

http://www.glennbeck.com/radio/rand-paul-says-dr-faucis-horrifying-statement-should-be-focus-of-media
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 24 July 2021 9:58:45 AM
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Dear JF,

Of course you are a mug.

You swallowed the video hook line and sinker but when call upon to show any evidence from the video you make little cryptic remarks about 'patents' or some such.

And no, I am not going to sit through 80 plus minutes of rubbish to try and decypher where you are coming from. Again, if you can't articulate any of it in words on this page then you probably don't get it yourself.

This is the third time I have invited you to state the case, any bloody case, from the video yet there you sit, very much earning the moniker 'mug'.

Dear Josephus,

Glenn Beck? Really? You can't be serious. Next you will be trotting out Alex Jones.

Fauci absolutely tore Rand a new one and it was a pleasure to watch.

Lol.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 24 July 2021 6:35:05 PM
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Several thousand Nazi's, Bogan's, Trumpsters and assorted other FW's took to the streets of Sydney and Melbourne to protest the lockdowns. Is the VIRUS our biggest enemy, or are these super spreaders more a danger than any virus could ever be. Gee, do we really have to live with these people?
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 24 July 2021 6:50:46 PM
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Hi Paul,

My older brother rang from Byron Bay this morning.
(It's my birthday today - Yay!). He spoke about the
arse holes who were demonstrating. Not wearing any masks
et cetera. My brother was disgusted by them all. He's
had his jab (as has his wife). And they're waiting for their
second jab. He too agree that these people should be moved
out of the country instead of spreading it around here.
They should at the very least be fined.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 25 July 2021 9:38:25 AM
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SR, obviously you cannot debate just rant ill informed opinion. You have a closed mind to others and demonstrate you are a bully and angry self opinionated.
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 25 July 2021 11:03:40 AM
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I've recently found out that we can get our Pfizer
vaccines here in Melbourne at the Austin Repatriation
Hospital - you have to make a booking and your GP
has to fill out a referral form for us. Anyway, we'll
give it a go.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 25 July 2021 11:42:46 AM
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Happy Birthday Foxy,

Just an update on my son in Bexley Sydney. D in L got onto the number supplied on the web site. She said it took sometime to get through, after some checking, she was told follow what you have been instructed thus far, and if you show any symptoms get a test done. She has heard 2 different stories from neighbours. One, the Covid case was in the block next to theirs, two, it was a close contact by someone in their block.

The other day she took the 2 kids to the local Woolies, a quick shop, walking back, as they walked past the little park, grandson wanted to stop and play. No one in the park, ok kids have a play. 2 ladies with kids came, the D in L said she panicked, packed up the kids and off home. She said; "Paul I'm going crazy, that's not like me, to act like that"

Surprised the forums 'Usual Suspects' haven't commented on my last post, them being sovereign citizens and all, with those wonderful inalienable rights they claim to have when it comes to the virus.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 25 July 2021 3:11:11 PM
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Dear Paul,

Thanks for the Birthday wish.
And keep us informed about your son and his family.
Fingers crossed that everything will work out alright.
It is scary though and I feel for the family and you guys
of course.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 25 July 2021 3:28:06 PM
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SR,

I posted the video and asked what in it is not the truth.
You have not replied to that question and have gone on and on with ad hom.

I agree with Josephus.
However I also now think you are a troll supporting covid vax.
Posted by JF Aus, Sunday, 25 July 2021 4:29:22 PM
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Paul,

Back in the time of the Anti Vietnam protests the police would arrest people to shew that the Government was fair dinkum, I didn’t see any arrests of these anti lockdown twits.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 25 July 2021 5:19:17 PM
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Hi Issy,

I believe there were something like 57 arrests in Sydney yesterday, and another 20 today. People certainly have a right to protest, been involved in many myself over the years. I believe firstly a protest must be peaceful, and secondly not endanger others. Yesterdays protests failed miserably on both accounts.

I'm well versed in the Vietnam War protests back in the day in Sydney, taking part myself as a young student. Coppers without badges removed to hide their identity, assisted by Neo-Nazis (true) making arrests of young girls, and other peaceful protesters. There were many thousands involved when Sydney's population was half what it is today. A court system complicit in handing down kangaroo court style guilty verdicts. It was a time of shame for democracy in Australia.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 25 July 2021 6:47:48 PM
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Paul,
Here’s a little story from those days.
The police had parked a number ‘Paddy Wagons’ in Pitt St in anticipation of lots of arrests.
The vehicles were left unattended whilst their crews went to George St in anticipation of the planned action.

Along came the late Bob Gould (of radical bookshop fame) and a few other protesters.
As luck would have it the wagons were parked near a locksmith’s shop; into the shop goes Bob and having bought the required number of padlocks proceeded, with help, to lock all the back doors which had been left unlocked for quick use.

When the prisoners arrived there was a degree of chaos and the prisoners had to be released.
Strangely the locksmith didn’t have bolt cutters on the premises.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 25 July 2021 8:07:21 PM
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Hi Issy,

Those were the days my friend. Still keep my hand in by attending the annual Invasion Day protest 26th Jan, but the coppers seem a rather benign lot now compared to the good old days. Even those who try to whip the crowd into a frenzy with yells of protest, are looked upon in mostly silent amusement by the majority.

What do we want!...NOT SURE!....When do we want it....NOW!
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 25 July 2021 10:27:12 PM
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Where are all the Forum Trumpsters coming out to defend the anti-vaxxers and other assorted nitwits who took part in the weekend riots in Sydney and Melbourne. Not a word to say!
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 July 2021 7:32:11 PM
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Pauliar,

I'm surprised that you are not out there with the rest of your anti-vaxxer buddies, maybe even punch a horse or two.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 6:40:33 AM
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shonkyminister,

As a Trumpster you are well known for your support of civil diso bedience, and the use of diso as a cure for all that ails you as defined by your folk hero and superman, Dangerous Doctor Donald!

Was it not you I seen at the head of the Forums Old Fart contingent waving your Confederate flag at the Sydney riot?
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 July 2021 7:06:23 AM
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It is evident that Paul cannot observe and post "FACT" so I would not trust him to represent situations with real balance, just nonsense.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 29 July 2021 8:54:27 AM
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Sorry Proud Boy Jose'

Did I get it wrong, and it was not shonkyminister at the head of the Forum's Old Fart contingent at the Sydney riot waving the Confederate flag, but rather it was you, sorry about the confusion, but the hoods on your heads makes identification difficult.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 July 2021 10:36:16 AM
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Paul proved my point exactly!
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 31 July 2021 4:39:03 PM
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