Armchair,
\>No, I'm railing against a policy that will see dysfunctional kids under 13 not be held
>accountable for their actions and be allowed to continue to harm others into adulthood.

But you appear to be contradicting yourself by claiming that's what's already happening.

>"What will it take to get it into your thick head that increasing the age of criminal
>responsibility won't give anyone a free pass?"
>What does it take to get it into YOUR THICK HEAD that they are already getting a free pass?

Firstly, I notice you've completely avoided answering the question.
Secondly, I wasn't insisting that they weren't already effectively getting a free pass. I was very well aware that you were of that opinion, and I didn't contradict you on it, though nor did I blindly accept it (I'm wary of forming an opinion based on only one side of the story, and as it's immaterial to my argument I didn't bother researching further).

The thickheadedness is entirely on your part - you've been unable to comprehend that being below the age of criminal responsibility doesn't mean that no legal action will be taken against them if they commit a crime.

>No, it's ENTIRELY a parents job to ensure their kid's physical and emotional wellbeing;
>If you fail to ensure your kid's physical and emotional wellbeing, - THEN YOU FAIL YOUR KIDS.
>To argue otherwise Aiden, you'd have to successfully argue on a basis of merit that 'IT'S NOT a parent's job to
>ensure their child's physical and emotional well-being'.

Ah, I see you've built a strawman!

Looking after kids' physical and emotional wellbeing is EXTREMELY important.
And as with any safety critical system, there should be multiple layers of redundancy.

The job can be very difficult. Emotional needs vary widely, and it's not always obvious to the parents whether or not they're getting it right. And to complicate matters, most parents have other jobs too.

Saying everything should depend on at least two people, and in many cases just one, and that it shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility: that's uncaring and indifferent!

Armchair (continued)

At least you acknowledge the possibility that it could be society's problem, but you seem to be obsessed with assigning blame instead of finding solutions.

Also, you seem to assume that wellbeing is a boolean quality; the reality is rather different.

>It's you that sees these kids as victims more than the people who are harmed by the actions of kids like this,

Ludicrously wrong! You have a very serious comprehension deficiency!

>when you're advocating for raising the age of criminal responsibility.

Not quite. What I'm advocating for is a change of approach to prioritise the prevention of crime. Raising the age of criminal responsibility may be a small part of this, but that doesn't mean what you think it does.

Hey Aiden,

"What I'm advocating for is a change of approach to prioritise the prevention of crime."

Fair enough, maybe we can find common ground then, because that's what I want too.

"Raising the age of criminal responsibility may be a small part of this, but that doesn't mean what you think it does."

Well maybe I'm the uninformed idiot here Aiden, but I don't see how raising the age of criminal responsibility to 13 will result in more accountability for the criminal actions of kids under 13.
- To my logic it will mean less accountability, and that these kids will be able to get away with more, so if you'd like to explain your logic I'd like to understand it.

There was a fatal indecent close to where I live yesterday, a 17yo driving a stolen Landcruiser killed a 39yo bloke and his pregnant 31yo girlfriend while they were out walking their dogs.
There's footage of him acting like an idiot towards other motorists before he runs into another car, and that's 15 minutes before he comes back and does what can only be considered a suicide move going through a red light at the intersection and time of day he did.
I'm told he was on bail with at least 50 charges already at the time of this incident.
Read about it here if you want:
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/at-least-two-killed-in-horror-crash-involving-stolen-car/news-story/0a288ea15f97716bdc58e3a6a965e12d

I don't know what to tell you Aiden, innocent people die.
This is where these young kids who don't care about anything (aloof)
and want to fight the whole world - this is where it ends.
They just keep on harming others, until something really bad happens.

"Saying everything should depend on at least two people, and in many cases just one, and that it shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility: that's uncaring and indifferent!"

A close friend of mine does it by herself;
No father in the picture, no family to help, she's been in jail and her kid's been in foster care, been home 2 yrs now.
Yet this kid, who started Grade 1 today, is the most well rounded and well adjusted kid that I know.
She wont even utter a swear word, even though her mum does frequently.
And not through fear of punishment, she just doesn't want to swear or disappoint her mum.
She NEVER gets smacked and I don't recall her even being yelled at.
She's the only kid in her class that never got reprimanded for ANYTHING (in prep) all last year.

She said to her mum the other day:
"Hey mummy, sooo, I know that like, when I was 5, I was pretty messy and stuff, annnnd, I’m really sorry for that. But now I’m 6, I’m cleaning up my mess and I wanna be helpful to you, coz I know you’re sore and I just like helping you".
- She's in her room carpet cleaning with the dustbuster.

This kid gets everything though, not new but her mum is really savvy with facebook and gumtree freebies.
You'd be surprised what people give away these days.
The bottom line is this kid has no-one else, and my friend has no intention of letting her down or failing her.

All you gotta do is 'ensure their physical and emotional wellbeing'.
It's really not rocket science.
- Be on the same page as them, and always have their best interests.

It's hard to be on the same page as a 4 or 5 year old.
They don't always make a lot of sense, but soon they start to.
If somethings wrong, it's your job to find out, and not a kids job to articulate whats wrong in the adult world.
It is their job to become dysfunctional if you fail them though.

Sorry, just realised the mistake in what I typed. It should have been:
"Saying everything should depend on at MOST two people, and in many cases just one, and that it shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility: that's uncaring and indifferent!"

And yes, many parents do succeed on their own, and I fully support that. But that doesn't mean everyone can emulate the success of your example. Unfortunately some children are a lot harder to raise than others. It goes without saying that the parents have no intention of letting them down or along them. Even so, having their best interests at heart is no guarantee of success.

It's never anyone's job to become dysfunctional. Success is more often partial than 100% in everything.

A bit more info on that earlier story:
Desperate plea after pregnant woman, partner killed in Alexandra Hills crash
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/devastating-gift-left-at-alexandra-hills-crash-site-after-pregnant-woman-and-partner-killed/news-story/dcb06fb9b67a93bdf66343ce778d4e2b

"The aunt of the pregnant woman allegedly killed by a teen driving a stolen car has made a desperate plea for tough youth offending laws, remembering her niece as 'everything that’s beautiful in this world'...
Ms Leadbetter demanded Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk reform youth justice punishment 'so young offenders aren’t let out on bail and they can not go and leave families traumatised'."

"And yes, many parents do succeed on their own, and I fully support that. But that doesn't mean everyone can emulate the success of your example."

My friend is covered in jail tattoos, and sure doesn't look like mum of the year.
I'm sure she gets judged because of the way she looks with those tattoos.
Like I said she's been locked up (before I met her), and her daughter spent a significant amount of time in foster care.
And honestly, she herself can't understand how she's managed to raise such a near-perfect child.

Completely different to my other friend, with the 13yo boy (now 15)
- And all the trouble he's gotten into and the path he's on.