Academics’ obsession with the divisive ideologies of Identity Politics and Critical Race Theory is preventing Australians from living together harmoniously, claims Bella ‘d Abrera, Director of the Western Civilisation Program.

She refers to an audit of universities, ‘The Humanities Dehumanised: How the humanities are taught in Australia’s universities in 2020’, which reveals that, of the 1,181 subjects in English Literature, History, Political Science and Studies in Society, only 177 teach the “essential core topics” which should be the basis for each discipline.

The intellectual and cultural heritage of Western civilisation have been rejected for divisive Identity Politics, Critical Race Theory, and Gender.

The report itself states that the “underlying premise of Identity Politics is that “individuals are distinguished by their differences, rather than by their similarities” …. “Instead of treating all people equally, all people should be treated unequally”.

Further: “There is no ‘discernible difference’ between Sociology and English Literature, or Philosophy and Sociology”. No matter what the subject is, “the same worldview is repeated throughout all disciplines”. Students are not being challenged nor enlightened, nor are ideas being tested.

“Students will all emerge with a monolithic view of the world.”

ttbn,

Have you heard this one: History is sociology without the brains and sociology is history without the hard work.

That's why I did an MA in sociology and another MA in history. I wanted to be a brainy hard worker.

I wanted to be a brainy hard worker.
Mr Opinion,
So, what went wrong ?

Universities Making Society Less Harmonious.
ttbn,
Spot on assessment ! Academics, particularly those who aren't actually smart enough to be socially apt & are of no use to anyone, are the worst offenders.

individual,

Sorry to disappoint you but everything went to plan.

Don't worry Moped

Did ttbn get into Uni and finish a degree?

Or just more of ttbn's no-Link, no-Proof, sour grapes.

plantagenet,

He didn't get the joke so maybe he's feeling a bit left out.

Mr. Opinion,

That was a joke? Humour obviously doesn't figure among all the qualifications you claim for yourself.

Plantagenet,

Your comment is too childish to respond to.

I found the document at http://ipa.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/IPA-Report-Humanities-Dehumanised-1.pdf and there's very little to it. It clearly wasn't a thorough study, but thankfully they didn't waffle on or pretend it was.

Looking at the content:
>Of the 1,181 subjects offered, only 177 treat the Essential Core Topics
>which should be the basis for the study of each discipline.
It is not clear exactly what they mean by "treat" but it it means studying them in detail then I don't see a problem with that. If those core topics are essential then I'd expect most them to dominate first year studies while playing a smaller role in subsequent years. As students specailize more, the class sizes would mostly be smaller, so it's only natural that those treating the core topics would be a minority.

Considering the first example:
>45 out of 182 English Literature subjects treat the Western Canon.
...one wonders what the document's anonymous authors would want the figure to be?
Certainly a university with a figure near 100% wouldn't be a very good one!

The claim that:
>The Essential Core Topics have been replaced with Identity Politics and Critical Race Theory
...would be a damning indictment if it were true. But I notice the document only looks at what is treated not HOW it is treated. It seems to assume blind acceptance of Critical Race Theory rather than a critical analysis of it. And the labelling of "class, race and gender" with the pejorative term "identity politics" overlooks the fact that unconscious biases (as well as more blatant ones) are very real, and are still holding a lot of people back. You certainly don't have to hold the view that "the treatment afforded an individual should be decided by their identity" to see there's a lot that could and should be done to overcome these biases.

From what I understand of humanities degrees (which admittedly is second hand) much of their value comes from teaching people to see the world from perspectives other than their own. This document seems to be dissing the universities for doing just that!

Aidan,

The confusion comes from the fact that for most people university education is all about just getting the vocational training needed to get a job.

I split university into three areas: Arts, Sciences, and Vocational.

Arts has all the scholarly subjects and humanities like history, sociology, archaeology, anthropology, philosophy, languages, etc. These are for people who want to study what it is to be human.

Sciences of course are the familiar ones like physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy, etc. These are for people who want to study how the physical world works.

The vocational ones are the work-related ones like engineering, medicine, law, architecture, accountancy, nursing, etc. These are for people wanting to qualify to work in the labour force principally in the professions.

The core of any university will always be the Arts and Sciences where the principal focus is on learning about ourselves and the world we live in. It's all about getting knowledge rather than about getting a job.

Unfortunately, especially today, we live in a society where status and success are determined primarily by one's income and occupation so people tend to place more emphasis on having a vocational education that will fit more readily with our cash nexus society in which wealth matters more than knowledge.

The humanities are certainly "teaching people to see the world from perspectives other than their own" to those of Marxist lectures.

ttbn,

What you just said above doesn't make any sense.

Would you like to try again?

Mr. Opinion

English comprehension is not among your vast educational achievements apparently.

ttbn

Answer the questions.

1. Did you go to University?

2. Did you complete a Degree?

OR

3. Are your comments just Childish and Ignorant?

ttbn,
What do think could be done about the likes of plantagenet & Mr Opinion ? Imagine being so indoctrinated that you have keep on telling yourself you're intelligent ?
I think they'd benefit greatly from a two-year National Service to open their mind.
Imagine getting them to see that they're of no real use to anyone ?
I suppose what you don't know doesn't really affect you !

individual,

Don't worry it's almost time for the nursing home lunch bell.

Then half a cup of pills from the nurse and you and ttbn can have your afternoon nap.

individual,

There is nothing to be done about plantpagnet and Mr. Opinion. They are both sarcastic, nasty little people, always trying to belittle others to hide their own enormous shortcomings. They are sociopaths. There is more than a fair chance that both are pathological liars about who they are and what they claim to know.

They don't address the subjects of posts, but go straight for the poster. They really are not worth dealing with. There are enough normal posters on OLO with interesting thoughts and ideas; we can ignore these two freaks. We don't have to "do anything" about their sort except ignore them.

ttbn,

Looks like I touched a nerve.

Well, you're the one locked up in the nursing home not me.

Now, put your teeth back in and get stuck into some of that homemade gruel they serve for lunch in the dining room.

Then take your pills and have your afternoon nap and afterwards hop back onto The Forum.

We'll be waiting.

individual,

Another thing I should have said: you can never change or shut up these narcissists. They are so full of themselves that they are unable to even fleetingly think that they are wrong or that they are the horrible people they really are. They are not normal. They will just get nastier if you react to them. There is no cure. Avoiding any personal contact with them is best; on OLO and any social media, don't read their tripe.

These are the sorts of people who have young, naive youngsters having breakdowns, even self-harming. It's easier to make friends with a Tiger snake.

individual,

Another thing I should have said: you can never change or shut up these narcissists. They are so full of themselves that they are unable to even fleetingly think that they are wrong or that they are the horrible people they really are. They are not normal. They will just get nastier if you react to them. There is no cure. Avoiding any personal contact with them is best; on OLO and any social media, don't read their tripe.

These are the people who have young, naive youngsters having breakdowns, even self-harming. They lack common humanity and any sensitivity to other people's feelings.

ttbn,
I fully agree ! We can only hope that their existence is eventually governed by their merits !

individual & ttbn,

Are you out on a day pass from the nursing home or did you just decide to forgo today's siesta?

Dear indi'n ttbn

Its encouraging to see youse are human. Well almost.

You may have a better Elma Fudd side - always after Truth - that Wabbit - but never catching it.

Here you are Elmas, a bit of droopy boys http://youtu.be/hMAhX8hEAEQ?t=34

The painting gags a bit innerllectual for youse, Aye!? :)

On harmony or the lack of it: Without consulting the community, and using the China virus as an excuse, Dictator Dan Andrews has decided to cancel the Australia Day parade.

BUT, last year, he allowed thousands of protesters to march through the streets of Melbourne for the Black Lives Matter movement.

AND, he is allowing Melbourne City Council to hold an “Invasion Day” Dawn Service on January 26.

Of course, we are soon going to need a permit to enter Victoria, again with the China virus as an excuse. Are we going to become separate colonies again, with Dictator Dan doing deals with China?

It is well past time that Morrison started taking an interest in the country he is supposed to be Prime Minister of. He would be likely to get support from an Opposition that is also sick of tinpot state premiers running their own little fiefdoms and ignoring their funding source - the federal government.

Which of the decision makers in Govt haven't been educated in universities & what are THEIR policies ?

In Victoria, Dictator Dan is not the only tyrant.

Melbourne doctor, Dr. Jereth Kok has been suspended buy the Medical Board of Victoria because he wrote:

"Dear Lefties,

There is something very important you need to understand. You cannot force someone's mind to change by using the law. By forcing Christian bakers, photographers and other artists to provide services to gays "weddings", the most you can hope to achieve is a charade on our part. We will be holding our proverbial noses as we provide our services. Even as we bake the cake or take the photos, we will continue to abominate the chosen lifestyle which is being celebrated at the event we're being compelled to partake in".

Dr. Kok appealed his suspension, but it was denied by VCAT. He has been unemployed since February 2020 while he awaits further deliberation. All because of two anonymous complaints.

Since when did the Medical Board have the right to put a stop to someone's career because of something he said, not because he is any danger to patients!.

China? We have our own little China in Victoria.

ttbn,

If you think you have your own little China in Victoria then you should pay a visit to Sydney where 1 in 2 people is Chinese by race and ethnicity.

"Dictator Dan Andrews has decided to cancel the Australia Day parade."

Well Australia ain't what it used to be, what are we celebrating again?

Armchair Critic,

We should keep Australia Day but need to also have a China Day because as we all know Australia has a Chinese future.

AC,

Not sure that we are 'celabrating' anything. There seems to be a hate-fest against Australia Day. The lunatic, Stegall, preferred over Tony Abbott by dumb voters, has called for a minutes silence on the day to appease aboriginal and white Communist activists. The hard left is competing to see who comes up with the silliest idea.

ttbn,

You and your kind wanted to Asianize Australia so that you could fill your pockets with Chinese silver so I reckon you can now like it or lump it.

Re Minutes Silence: I heard this come across my housemates TV this morning.

First impression: Annoyed by it.
First Thoughts: They are trying to impose guilt upon the entire populace, when no-one is responsible for things that happened prior to being born.

Nobody alive today is responsible for events back in the 1700's.
NO-ONE, The people they are angry at are LONG DEAD.

What do the indigenous want to do, raise them from the dead,
Lay out a formal victim impact statement and then hit over the head with a nulla nulla and put them back in the ground?

What exactly?

Then I went looking for articles and came across this:
http://www.progressivechristians.org.au/articles/observe-a-minutes-silence-on-australia-day

"Remembrance and Reflection. But let us include a third R – Resolution. Let us, as an Australian people, resolve that the story of both indigenous and European occupation of this land be faced squarely. At 10:00am on the 26 January, 2013, for a minute at least, let the story of the experience of Australia’s indigenous people be remembered. Is that too much to ask?"

And then I'm like eeehhhhhh....

I can see where they're going.
I can see they have good intentions.

Resolve.
1. As In: Trying to put past differences behind you, come to some sort of understanding - water under the bridge.
2. Or it could be more of a victim impact statement, holding you accountable for things you've done.
3. Where someone resolves to do something.

I think there's no resolving things that happened 200 years ago, and indigenous have resolved to never let others forget it.
Standing against what was done to them in the past is part and parcel of their very identity now.

The worlds gone crazy.
I think it's time for my every now-and-again

'World's next most stupidest thing'.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/calls-to-ban-baby-wet-wipes-in-queensland-20210119-p56v9p.html

'Baby wipes to be banned, Parents told to use their hands instead'
- No it doesn't say that but it may as well...

Hows this one:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/plastic-straws-knives-forks-to-be-thrown-out-for-good-in-queensland-20200828-p55q81.html

Disposable plastic straws, plates and cutlery are close to being banned in Queensland after a parliamentary committee gave the proposal the green light.

"Under the legislation, set to be debated in State Parliament next month, businesses caught selling plastic straws and cutlery after July 1, 2021, would be fined up to $6672."

Here's the 'Do as I say but not as I do' fineprint.

"Schools and healthcare providers will be exempt from the ban."

- Make us pay (through the nose) for the changes they want, while exempting themselves from the same regulations.

Well I got my 2 boxes of 1000 plastic drinking straws on eBay so you can all suck it.
- Suck it up in your sloppy soggy paper straws.
There's a reason they got rid of them - you know what the reason was.

They're shite.

We're now living under a soft-authoritarian government.

I think it's all crap.
How come Coles and Woolies managed to change their bags to more environmentally friendly plastic and keep everyone off their backs?
Or is it just because they are made in Germany from 80% recycled plastic and charge us that we say 'Ohh... ok then'.

What and you can't change straws and other things to use some kind of biodegradable plastic?

There's a war on humans being human.

The plan is 'carbon neutral', that means if we fart, we get fined, because we probably ate some kind of banned meat product when will decree that all we are allowed is plant based meat.

- And you can bet the elites won't be going without their porterhouse.

There's no end to any of this crazyness, they're never satisfied and they just keep shifting the goalposts.

The worlds gone to shite, what's to even debate anymore?

'More than 30 countries condemn Australia at UN over high rates of child incarceration'
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/21/china-attacks-australia-at-un-over-baseless-charges-as-canberra-criticised-for-keeping-children-in-detention

You see this?
This is kind of what I'm talking about when I say we have no democracy.
- There's no such thing as democracy in a 2 party system when one of the platforms is an 'immigrant' platform.

What we have instead is international democracy imposed on sovereign nation states.

I most certainly DO NOT support giving all kids a free pass till they are 14. No.
If they can't learn to take responsibility for their own actions at 14 then it's unlikely they ever will, and a lot of other people will have to pay the price in the meantime in the hope that someday they will take to take responsibility for their own actions.

Honestly if we had kids working in pubs serving patrons drinks from age 8, we'd probably have kids that grow up and take more responsibility for themselves than we do now.

Look at this over-privileged woman.
Claims to have never have washed her own hair in her life, and needs her hairdresser, oh poor baby.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/bernard-tomics-girlfriend-vanessa-sierra-gets-clip-from-cricket-wag/news-story/38a38d02effa07c4e37e216ec8a05163

Society is getting pretty sick.

Armchair,
You're the sick one. Those 30+ countries are right - Australia does have a very big problem with kids in detention. Increasing the age of criminal responsibility is part of the solution, but THAT DOES NOT MEAN GIVING EVERYONE BELOW THAT AGE A FREE PASS.

In a previous discussion on this issue, Foxy posted the link http://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/opinions/jail-answer-australian-kids
I suggest you read it. But first, lets take a look at a few more of your absurd claims:

>This is kind of what I'm talking about when I say we have no democracy.
This indicates Trumpian levels of delusion! Or maybe you subscribe to the Chinese Communist Party's notion that democracy really means 'protecting those in power from international criticism'?

I support real democracy - bring on the criticism.
Why do you oppose it?

>- There's no such thing as democracy in a 2 party system when one of the platforms is an 'immigrant' platform.
I can't think of a single example of it, so maybe you are technically correct, though I get the feeling you wanted your comment to be interpreted some other way. What exactly were you thinking of?

>What we have instead is international democracy imposed on sovereign nation states.
Hardly - the UN has practically no power to enforce these things.

Anyway, which do you think should be more important: states' rights or human rights?
The USA fought a civil war over the issue. Fortunately the human rights side won.

First off, we give too many kids above the age of 10 a virtual free pass already.
I personally know kids 13 and 14 that have committed more crime than any adult would ever see the light of day outside of prison again for.

Kids... Well it's not that they don't know the difference between right and wrong, for the large part they do, they just don't care and it doesn't help when bad things were done to them.

If you're raised in a toxic environment, and you develop an aloof attitude to deal with a situation beyond your control;
- Then you are going to grow up dysfunctional with an 'I don't care attitude', and a narcissist.
You're going to find friends in all the other dysfunctional kids, and peer pressure will take you towards drugs, alcohol and crime.

Where do the indigenous kids in detention come from?
Probably from bad homes of young mums that can't or don't know how to raise their kids any better than they were raised.

** It's a parents job to ensure their kids physical and emotional wellbeing.
It's not the rest of societies fault if these kids have issues.
- But it is our problem when we're on the end of it.

These kids will harm others none the less and I'm not going to give them a free pass.
If they haven't committed any crimes, then they shouldn't be in with those who have, but ultimately it's not society's fault they are there any less then its their own parents who failed them.

You can argue it two different ways, you can say the kids are victims (many just perpetuate the aloof attitude and play the system)
Or you can say the people who are subjected to the kids crimes are the victims.

Or I suppose you could entertain the whole idea of disadvantage, but only if you say its ok to do nothing and hate on society for stuff that happened 200 years ago, instead of going out into the world and trying to make a better life for yourself.

And it's not democracy, 30+ countries backed by the UN have more sway than I do don't they - with their official forms, delegates and meetings.
When was I consulted?
When one party in a 2 party system represents immigrants;
Then it's pass the baton, between the existing peoples interests and foreigners and global interests.

Then what you do is force immigration so that it changes the demographics of the people, that way you can change the type of government that rules it.

When they impose their 'global beliefs' on nation states they strip away any real right for the people decide for ourselves, that's if we even had any anyway.

What's more important - states rights or human rights?

Well that depends, lets say you have a Muslim country and they don't allow anyone other than Muslims.
Should they be allowed to live however they choose, or if I decide I want to go there should I think everything should change just for me as a foreigner?

If you impose your beliefs on them, then they don't have the right to live how they choose anymore.

How can people say they believe in democracy but then every nation pokes its nose into every other nations citizens decisions?

Armchair,
>First off, we give too many kids above the age of 10 a virtual free pass already.
So you're railing against something that you suppose will formalise the status quo?

What will it take to get it into your thick head that increasing the age of criminal responsibility won't give anyone a free pass?

It's PRIMARILY the parents' job to ensure their kids physical and emotional wellbeing. But if you consider it to be EXCLUSIVELY the parents' job, you're demonstrating the aloof attitude that you're complaining about!

> Or you can say the people who are subjected to the kids crimes are the victims.

WTF do you mean "or"?
You seem to be making the ludicrous claim that recognising the victims of the crime are victims is mutually exclusive with understanding that the perpetrators may also be victims!

>Or I suppose you could entertain the whole idea of disadvantage,
>but only if you say its ok to do nothing and hate on society

Struth, these preposterous claims of yours are coming thick and fast! Why do you think only those dumb enough to think disadvantage excuses bad behaviour should be able to acknowledge the role it has in causing such behaviour?

>And it's not democracy, 30+ countries backed by the UN have more sway than I do don't they

So what? Sway isn't voting power! Different people have different amounts of sway. While they remain alive, you'll never hold as much sway as Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Kerry Stokes, Waleed Ali, Bono, Elon Musk, or indeed the majority of famous people.

Do you think you should hold as much sway as them? Surely you know what "armchair critic" means? Your portraying yourself as someone who doesn't bother going and investigating the facts, but instead voices opinions based on the little evidence that reaches you.

Countries at the UN consult experts, not ignoramuses!

Armchair (continued)

>When one party in a 2 party system represents immigrants;
I'm not going to discuss the implications of that until you've stated the relevance. In which country, if any, do you think that applies to?

>lets say you have a Muslim country and they don't allow anyone other than Muslims.
>Should they be allowed to live however they choose, or if I decide I want to go there
>should I think everything should change just for me as a foreigner?

No, not for you as a foreigner, but for the people who live there! People should be free from tyranny, even when it's the tyranny of the majority.

It's not about imposing beliefs on others. Nearly all countries signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And the rest certainly weren't democracies.

>How can people say they believe in democracy but then every nation pokes its nose >into every other nations citizens decisions?

Firstly because democracy isn't the be all and end all.
Secondly because poking their noses in is entirely compatible with democracy. Indeed by helping to keep everyone informed about what the problems are, it actually improves democracy!

Hey Aiden,

"So you're railing against something that you suppose will formalise the status quo?"

No, I'm railing against a policy that will see dysfunctional kids under 13 not be held accountable for their actions and be allowed to continue to harm others into adulthood.

"What will it take to get it into your thick head that increasing the age of criminal responsibility won't give anyone a free pass?"

What does it take to get it into YOUR THICK HEAD that they are already getting a free pass?

Let me tell you about a 13 year old I personally know ok.
His list of crimes at 13 include, grievous bodily hard on a handicap kid. Break and Enters, Stealing, Stealing cars joyriding, racial abuse, threatening people with machete's and then having to go back to the police station to ask for his machete back. Assaulting people,doing crack, I know his house was raided several times with police looking for firearms, and he had threatened to kill his mother, and beat her up to the point she's petrified of him. Department of children services threaten to take her other kid because they say she's putting her at risk, all she can do is do her best and hope they keep him locked up and move somewhere where he can't find her, or she will lose her other kid, and is more or less a basket case living in fear of him.
- For years he would do all this stuff and all the police would do is drop him back home -

So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about;
- And I don't even know the half of the stuff that he's done.

[Cont.]
"It's PRIMARILY the parents' job to ensure their kids physical and emotional wellbeing. But if you consider it to be EXCLUSIVELY the parents' job, you're demonstrating the aloof attitude that you're complaining about!"

No, it's ENTIRELY a parents job to ensure their kid's physical and emotional wellbeing;
If you fail to ensure your kid's physical and emotional wellbeing, - THEN YOU FAIL YOUR KIDS.
To argue otherwise Aiden, you'd have to successfully argue on a basis of merit that 'IT'S NOT a parent's job to ensure their child's physical and emotional well-being'.
If you want to argue that, if you are stupid enough to even attempt to try to argue it's NOT a parent's job to ensure their child's physical and emotional well-being, then more fool you. Be my guest.

"You seem to be making the ludicrous claim that recognising the victims of the crime are victims is mutually exclusive with understanding that the perpetrators may also be victims!"

It's you that sees these kids as victims more than the people who are harmed by the actions of kids like this, when you're advocating for raising the age of criminal responsibility.

Maybe I'll get to the rest later...

Oh, and by the way, aloof means 'I don't care'; indifferent.
It doesn't mean ignorant.

For the record 'Ensuring you kids physical and emotional wellbeing' ISN'T NEGOTIABLE.

YOU EITHER DO OR YOU DON'T.

If you don't take the time to encourage their physical development then they aren't going to come to you if there are things wrong within their physical development.
It'll be your fault if something is wrong but they don't feel they can come to you.
If you don't ensure their emotional wellbeing and approach it that way, then by default you may very well be ensuring their child dysfunction.
If you are not on the same page as them, and build emotional trust, take an active part of their lives, be their friend, but have their best interests too, then they're not going to come to you with problems because they won't trust you enough to share things with you.

If you fail to do these things and your dysfunctional kids spirals out of control into adolescence, hates authority and wants to fight the whole entire world, do drugs and doesn't care about anything;
- Than that's your fault for not being on the same page with them and ensuring their physical and emotional well-being and having their best interest in the first place.
- That's YOUR JOB as a parent.

It may be society's problem, but it sure as hell is not other individuals fault except the parents themselves.

Armchair,
\>No, I'm railing against a policy that will see dysfunctional kids under 13 not be held
>accountable for their actions and be allowed to continue to harm others into adulthood.

But you appear to be contradicting yourself by claiming that's what's already happening.

>"What will it take to get it into your thick head that increasing the age of criminal
>responsibility won't give anyone a free pass?"
>What does it take to get it into YOUR THICK HEAD that they are already getting a free pass?

Firstly, I notice you've completely avoided answering the question.
Secondly, I wasn't insisting that they weren't already effectively getting a free pass. I was very well aware that you were of that opinion, and I didn't contradict you on it, though nor did I blindly accept it (I'm wary of forming an opinion based on only one side of the story, and as it's immaterial to my argument I didn't bother researching further).

The thickheadedness is entirely on your part - you've been unable to comprehend that being below the age of criminal responsibility doesn't mean that no legal action will be taken against them if they commit a crime.

>No, it's ENTIRELY a parents job to ensure their kid's physical and emotional wellbeing;
>If you fail to ensure your kid's physical and emotional wellbeing, - THEN YOU FAIL YOUR KIDS.
>To argue otherwise Aiden, you'd have to successfully argue on a basis of merit that 'IT'S NOT a parent's job to
>ensure their child's physical and emotional well-being'.

Ah, I see you've built a strawman!

Looking after kids' physical and emotional wellbeing is EXTREMELY important.
And as with any safety critical system, there should be multiple layers of redundancy.

The job can be very difficult. Emotional needs vary widely, and it's not always obvious to the parents whether or not they're getting it right. And to complicate matters, most parents have other jobs too.

Saying everything should depend on at least two people, and in many cases just one, and that it shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility: that's uncaring and indifferent!

Armchair (continued)

At least you acknowledge the possibility that it could be society's problem, but you seem to be obsessed with assigning blame instead of finding solutions.

Also, you seem to assume that wellbeing is a boolean quality; the reality is rather different.

>It's you that sees these kids as victims more than the people who are harmed by the actions of kids like this,

Ludicrously wrong! You have a very serious comprehension deficiency!

>when you're advocating for raising the age of criminal responsibility.

Not quite. What I'm advocating for is a change of approach to prioritise the prevention of crime. Raising the age of criminal responsibility may be a small part of this, but that doesn't mean what you think it does.

Hey Aiden,

"What I'm advocating for is a change of approach to prioritise the prevention of crime."

Fair enough, maybe we can find common ground then, because that's what I want too.

"Raising the age of criminal responsibility may be a small part of this, but that doesn't mean what you think it does."

Well maybe I'm the uninformed idiot here Aiden, but I don't see how raising the age of criminal responsibility to 13 will result in more accountability for the criminal actions of kids under 13.
- To my logic it will mean less accountability, and that these kids will be able to get away with more, so if you'd like to explain your logic I'd like to understand it.

There was a fatal indecent close to where I live yesterday, a 17yo driving a stolen Landcruiser killed a 39yo bloke and his pregnant 31yo girlfriend while they were out walking their dogs.
There's footage of him acting like an idiot towards other motorists before he runs into another car, and that's 15 minutes before he comes back and does what can only be considered a suicide move going through a red light at the intersection and time of day he did.
I'm told he was on bail with at least 50 charges already at the time of this incident.
Read about it here if you want:
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/at-least-two-killed-in-horror-crash-involving-stolen-car/news-story/0a288ea15f97716bdc58e3a6a965e12d

I don't know what to tell you Aiden, innocent people die.
This is where these young kids who don't care about anything (aloof)
and want to fight the whole world - this is where it ends.
They just keep on harming others, until something really bad happens.

"Saying everything should depend on at least two people, and in many cases just one, and that it shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility: that's uncaring and indifferent!"

A close friend of mine does it by herself;
No father in the picture, no family to help, she's been in jail and her kid's been in foster care, been home 2 yrs now.
Yet this kid, who started Grade 1 today, is the most well rounded and well adjusted kid that I know.
She wont even utter a swear word, even though her mum does frequently.
And not through fear of punishment, she just doesn't want to swear or disappoint her mum.
She NEVER gets smacked and I don't recall her even being yelled at.
She's the only kid in her class that never got reprimanded for ANYTHING (in prep) all last year.

She said to her mum the other day:
"Hey mummy, sooo, I know that like, when I was 5, I was pretty messy and stuff, annnnd, I’m really sorry for that. But now I’m 6, I’m cleaning up my mess and I wanna be helpful to you, coz I know you’re sore and I just like helping you".
- She's in her room carpet cleaning with the dustbuster.

This kid gets everything though, not new but her mum is really savvy with facebook and gumtree freebies.
You'd be surprised what people give away these days.
The bottom line is this kid has no-one else, and my friend has no intention of letting her down or failing her.

All you gotta do is 'ensure their physical and emotional wellbeing'.
It's really not rocket science.
- Be on the same page as them, and always have their best interests.

It's hard to be on the same page as a 4 or 5 year old.
They don't always make a lot of sense, but soon they start to.
If somethings wrong, it's your job to find out, and not a kids job to articulate whats wrong in the adult world.
It is their job to become dysfunctional if you fail them though.

Sorry, just realised the mistake in what I typed. It should have been:
"Saying everything should depend on at MOST two people, and in many cases just one, and that it shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility: that's uncaring and indifferent!"

And yes, many parents do succeed on their own, and I fully support that. But that doesn't mean everyone can emulate the success of your example. Unfortunately some children are a lot harder to raise than others. It goes without saying that the parents have no intention of letting them down or along them. Even so, having their best interests at heart is no guarantee of success.

It's never anyone's job to become dysfunctional. Success is more often partial than 100% in everything.

A bit more info on that earlier story:
Desperate plea after pregnant woman, partner killed in Alexandra Hills crash
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/devastating-gift-left-at-alexandra-hills-crash-site-after-pregnant-woman-and-partner-killed/news-story/dcb06fb9b67a93bdf66343ce778d4e2b

"The aunt of the pregnant woman allegedly killed by a teen driving a stolen car has made a desperate plea for tough youth offending laws, remembering her niece as 'everything that’s beautiful in this world'...
Ms Leadbetter demanded Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk reform youth justice punishment 'so young offenders aren’t let out on bail and they can not go and leave families traumatised'."

"And yes, many parents do succeed on their own, and I fully support that. But that doesn't mean everyone can emulate the success of your example."

My friend is covered in jail tattoos, and sure doesn't look like mum of the year.
I'm sure she gets judged because of the way she looks with those tattoos.
Like I said she's been locked up (before I met her), and her daughter spent a significant amount of time in foster care.
And honestly, she herself can't understand how she's managed to raise such a near-perfect child.

Completely different to my other friend, with the 13yo boy (now 15)
- And all the trouble he's gotten into and the path he's on.

"It is their job to become dysfunctional if you fail them though."

Kids learn 2 social behaviors growing up.
1. Respect your parents - Do as your told, even if you don't like it.
2. Tit for Tat - This is the social behavior you learn with your peers.
If you touch me, I'll touch you.
If you hit me, I'll hit you; reciprocate.

Parents will even reinforce the Tit for Tat behaviour.
If a kid is bullied they will tell them they have to learn to stick up for themselves more, not be walked over etc.
So what happens when parents treat kids unfairly, or more specifically what happens when kids percieve that they aren't being listened to or treated fairly?
The respect your parents deal, is not unconditional, its a contract.
If you aren't on the same page as them, and treat them unfairly, you break the contract.
They will move to 'Tit for Tat' with their parents, because they've been taught to stick up for themselves when treated unfairly.

"Why don't you listen to me!?"
"Well you don't listen to me"

If you fail to get back on the same page with them, and the unfairness they perceptive continues and is unresolved, they are going to continue to act out and become dysfunctional.

Its a parents job to ensure their kids physical and emotional wellbeing.
That means you are NOT supposed to create situations for them that malign it.
And if you do, you gotta own it.
Otherwise how can you be on the same page as them?
How can you ensure their emotional wellbeing if you're not on the same page as them?

The unresolved issues - the feelings surrounding the issue
- pent up anger and resentment, trapped in a situation beyond their control
Those feelings will manifest in other ways;
- Hurt people, hurt people.

- And that's why I'm telling you, these hurt kids might be victims themselves;
But they're gonna keep hurting others, until something really bad happens.