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The Forum > General Discussion > Faith

Faith

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Dear David,

I thank you for this topic.

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First Definition:

This can be good or bad, or some mixture of the two, depending on the person, on the circumstances, but especially on what it is that they have faith in.

If faith is, say, in politicians, then I tend to believe it not to be a good idea.
If faith is in God, then such faith is absolutely safe.

But wait before you jump... How does one know that their faith is indeed in God? rather than in some IDEA ABOUT God which someone told them? How about, for example, if one was told that Kim Jong Un is God, or the Beatles for that matter?

So before one can speak of faith in God, one should at least have an idea what God is and not merely assume that God is whatever the church/Koran tells that He is. This may require a long, but important discussion.
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Second Definition:

This definition speaks of "spiritual conviction", but does the lexicographer even know what it means?

A true SPIRITUAL conviction is absolute and by far stronger and more decisive than any possible proof brought to us by our feeble senses, minds or any other instruments.

If we are to stick with this definition as it stands, then nothing can be better. However, those who do not believe in the possibility of access to the Absolute, ontological Reality, might claim that this definition is empty, lacking any applicable example (including the 9/11/2001 example).

What the lexicographer likely had in mind instead, are convictions brought about by some combination of intellectual, emotional and/or social influences which just happened to occur in a spiritual environment.

Are such convictions good, bad or neutral? This all depends on the particular case and circumstances.

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Faith in God is indeed a virtue, so is Charity/Love, and here I agree that both are the gifts of God through grace.
(but please remember, as above, that the faith needs to indeed be in God)

Unlike Christianity, however, Hinduism considers "Hope" to be a weakness rather than a virtue.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 26 July 2020 11:14:09 PM
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Dear Ttbn,

«I would like to believe in God, but I don't have that sort of faith.»

Perhaps what is stopping you are preconceived ideas regarding what God is. If I were told for example, that God is an harsh, unreasonable and cruel tyrant, then I too would not be able to believe in such God.

«the latter has faith that the former does not, and the latter will leave this life happier than the former.»

And with some deeper understanding of what God is or isn't, you should be able to count yourself among the latter.

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Dear Critic,

«Without the ability to reason, I could not be me.»

Many older people when faced with the loss of driving-license also say:

"Without the ability to drive, I could not be me."

Then comes the inevitable loss, and lo and behold, they are still themselves. Though licenseless, they do not turn to become someone else.

Similarly, should you lose your ability to reason, it would still be THE SAME YOU who had this loss, just without the ability to reason.

But please do not let it concern you because here are some great news for you:

One can have faith AND be able to reason. They are not mutually exclusive!

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Dear ALTRAV,

«if I don't believe in God, what do I believe in?
My answer has always been the same and one I can rely on and has done me and others well throughout my life, and the answer is; ME!»

GREAT! Who told you that YOU and God are different?
Ah, the priests and the nuns when you were 3?
Why not check it out for yourself instead?
Find out who YOU are, then find out who God is... you may be surprised to find that ultimately you are one and the same!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 26 July 2020 11:14:15 PM
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For myself, faith in a god could not happen. I think it comes down both to my personality, that relies on very few and myself, and the reality I need concrete proof to believe.

I went to Sunday school for years, but very quickly decided it was not true. My short experience with religion caused me much stress, so I overcame this fear by taunting God.

But, maturity changes one's mind about the impact of religion.

For the many people who are religious, having faith would not be irrational and would provide a strong justification for how and why they live, as well as greater comfort in hard times. Nothing wrong with that.

And religious people, and sometimes their institutions, can do great work for many people.

At best. i would be like Dr Spong, and merely support the message of Christianity rather than believe in its divine miracles
Posted by Chris Lewis, Monday, 27 July 2020 8:08:16 AM
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Paul1405,
Belief without evidence is what's known as blind faith. As a Christian, that is something I'm strongly opposed to.

Real faith is trust without proof.
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 27 July 2020 11:31:35 AM
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As humans we sign contracts because we cannot always trust others to fulfil their side of the agreement. Contracts and laws covering contracts overrides verbal agreements because we have learned we cannot have faith in the other.

I have learned enough on persons who I can trust, and those who I cannot. Though on many occasions I feel safer with a legal contract of agreement.

Religious faith has established our moral and ethic values, and even the - to many irrational. It is Christianity that has given us our set of laws, instead of a murder for a murder we incarcerate in the hope they will repent [changed their behaviour].

Jesus could forgive his murderers, as did Stephen at their deaths, and Paul the writer of much of the Church doctrine was converted from a Murderer of Christians to finally being put to death in Rome for his faith. To other world views that is irrational, because anyone guilty of murdered they should die.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 27 July 2020 1:55:37 PM
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Leonard Cohen (1934 - 2016) wrote the following on
faith:

The birds they sang at the break of day
Start Again
I heard them say
Don't dwell on what has passed away
Or what is yet to be
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 27 July 2020 2:42:19 PM
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