If one looks up the word, faith, on the net one will find two definitions accompanied by examples.

1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"

2. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
"bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"

As far as I am concerned both kinds of faith are bad. The first definition is antithetical to democracy if applied to politicians. If it is applied to anything else it is an unwarranted degree of trust. The second definition defines the faith shown by those who flew the airplanes into the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. According to the following faith is a theological virtue.

https://www.learnreligions.com/faith-a-theological-virtue-542120

"Faith is the first of the three theological virtues; the other two are hope and charity (or love). Unlike the cardinal virtues, which can be practiced by anyone, the theological virtues are gifts of God through grace."

To believe without proof is, to me, abandoning reason. It takes away my humanity as my reason is what makes me human. To me faith is not a virtue but a vice. Does anyone agree?

Dear David,

To me faith is not a belief without proof, but
to me it's trust without reservation.
I trust my husband without reservation.
I have complete faith in him.

As for religion? I have my personal beliefs.
Which has helped me to see light during my darkest
moments and continues to do so.

Hi David,

Having a serious operation eg heart surgery is it not justified to have "faith" in the surgeon. Do we not exercise faith in our everyday lives, eg the bus driver to drive the bus safely so we reach our destination. Faith is having a belief without evidence, or am I confusing faith with confidence. I often have faith in my Lotto ticket, unfortunately that faith is so often misplaced and shattered by the later reality.

I'm sure there are more than two definitions. These days, words are twisted to mean whatever a user wants them to mean, or thinks they mean. And, most people these days look up the internet, where anyone can put up pretty much anything. Few people bother with dictionaries compiled by qualified scholars. Faith is often confused with belief, too.

I don't see how the word can be either a virtue or a vice. Given David's often expressed disregard for religion, particularly the Christian version, I think that it is religious faith (belief in the unknown) that he really regards as a vice, as opposed to faith that the sun will rise tomorrow.

That sort of faith is a personal thing that cannot be explained to people who don't have it. No amount of discussion will bring about a satisfactory conclusion. As an agnostic who believes in Christian principles, I would like to believe in God, but I don't have that sort of faith. The 'dead cert' historical Jesus Christ is as far as I can go. But, I would like to point out to people who flatly refuse to believe in God, that in the eyes of a neutral observer, they can be no more sure that He doesn't exist than those who claim He does exist. The difference being the latter has faith that the former does not, and the latter will leave this life happier than the former.

Thanks for the thread, David

Hi david f,

"To believe without proof is, to me, abandoning reason. It takes away my humanity as my reason is what makes me human. To me faith is not a virtue but a vice. Does anyone agree?"

Yeah I agree.
On some level I think religion puts peoples minds in a cage;
Upon taking up religion they risk losing all sense of themselves
- Often prone to irrational beliefs and behavior harmful to others.

Also I don't think religions pass the Ethics Test.

'Everybody has the right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't have a negative and detrimental impact on others'

I think believers substitute religion as their moral compass into the empty space that was reserved for ethics.

Without the ability to reason, I could not be me.
And if humans could not reason we wouldn't exist.

Having been raised a Catholic, (I believe the correct term is Roman Catholic, of course, what else) I had it shoved into me from every orifice, mainly because I was a live-in student (a boarder).
Up at some ungodly (pun intended) hour, straight to mass for an hour, then and only after mass we had breakfast.
This all began at a ripe old age of 3yr old, through to high school so I know a thing or two about faith (religious kind).
Now being an inquisitive person, always wanting to know WHY about everything, so religion came into focus for me.
After learning about the bible and it's contents, I began to question much of the teachings within.
Such things as a virgin giving birth, and many other things, not going to waste space elaborating.
The one about Christ dying and coming to life again (re-incarnation), I thought was possible, it has happened, that's why we have wakes, in case the corpse awakens, weird I know.
Anyway, I know some of you don't want to hear this but I found that people would ask me, if I don't believe in God, what do I believe in?
My answer has always been the same and one I can rely on and has done me and others well throughout my life, and the answer is; ME!