To SteekeRedux

What causes people to give up, and what can we do about it are two of the big questions in life that I'd like answers to more often then not. The second part for what makes life worth living was a round about way of trying to find answers for what we can do to fend off the behavior of giving up and choosing to die. What might have worked for other people might be good knowledge to have as a society so to better fight off suicide as a whole.

I think feeling trapped is a very good way of putting it. Might not always be the case for reasoning, but at least for me, I can relate to that answer.

As for the different religious or spiritual views that either we currently have, or our ancestors long long ago have, I would caution you against just giving an intellectual answer to dismiss them. Having a deeper connection to nature, versus having an organized religion in larger cities can be factored in fulfilling a need in one way or another. But that only makes sense if you don't actually hear from them and hear from their side of things. This is the problem I have with a lot of intellectualized answers for other people's behavior. To often it removes the search to see if the answer is correct, and instead just assumes that it is. It's better to hear from those who are being discussed to see if what they say fits the reasoning already hypothesized. For ancient cultures this requires more history, archeology to confirm anything, if anything can be confirmed. But for modern day populations, no matter the population, there is a much easier way to find out if the reasoning is accurate.

To Yuyutsu, Opinion and Canem Malum.

I have a response to what you guys have written so far, but I'm running out of post for the day. I'll have to wait until later to post my replies.

Human life on earth began about 100,000 years ago. for the very earliest of our species infant mortality might have been as high as 50%, and life expectancy 10 years.

“Modern” Homo sapiens (that is, people who were roughly like we are now) first walked the Earth about 50,000 years ago. Since then, more than 108 billion members of our species have ever been born, according to estimates by Population Reference Bureau (PRB). Given the current global population of about 7.5 billion (based on our most recent estimate as of 2019), that means those of us currently alive represent about 7 percent of the total number of modern humans who have ever lived.

The great conundrums of the wheres and the whys of our existence is only relevant for less than about 10% of all humans that have ever breathed the air. For the rest it was like all animals, born, existed, died, nothing else. Most of our species has never given a thought to why they were here, gods, immortality, the after life, just eked out an existence, only to die and be forgotten.

Dear NNS,

You write;

“I would caution you against just giving an intellectual answer to dismiss them.”

Why on earth do you think I am dismissing them?

Look at the inventiveness, the passion, the literature, the art, the hyper emotional states we are able to achieve by elevating the simple drive to copulate into esoteric realms of breathtaking beauty.

We have done the same with coping with the knowledge of mortality. The great religious works including the various major religious texts stand as testament to that human ingenuity and creativity.

The great literary critic Harold Bloom spoke of the incredible period of religious creativity within the US which saw the development of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Christian Science, the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Southern Baptist Convention.

It is interesting to contemplate what were the driving factors of that outpouring. A new land resonating with notions of a promised land, religious freedoms enshrined by founding fathers, and a frontier individualism leading to notions of a personal relationship with their version of God?

This is part of the human capacity which I certainly celebrate.

I also acknowledge that just as good people can be driven to dreadful crimes of passion in the service of their notions of unrequited love, religious folk follow the same impulses and are capable of horrendous crimes in the name of their particular faith.

It is all part of the human condition and as such should never be dismissed.

To Yuyutsu and Opinion.

One of the points I am making with my perspective of a religious view is that it is not devoid of scientific understanding. Not in competition with science. Not an either/or kind of thing. I think Loudmouth made a similar observation.

Very good point Yuyutsu, that life include both the positive and the negative aspects of it. Would you care to comment on your thoughts on what makes life worth living in light of both the positive and the negitive spa specks of life?

As for this thread Onion, I've already responded to your first post. And again if you wanted to have this conversation on your terms you should have presented it on your own as it's own separate topic, instead of trying to force another discussion to this topic. Be a better man Opinion. That's all it would have taken. Instead I took your challenge (you made it to both me and OzSpen, as well as later to anyone with a religious view), and I made a topic based on that question. If you don't like it, then learn from it, and next time just start the topic yourself. (Again not trying to force the topic in another discussion, be better then that).

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As for the problem of my religious views, isn't that a bit circular logic. You don't believe God is real so the problem with my views is that I acknowledge that He does? No, look at the views again. I am not removing scientific observation out of it. Instead I've said that life is from the breath, not from being a feeder or closely tied to water. That breathing is a stronger element to life then either of those. And I acknowledged that God is who started the cycle of breath from cellular respiration, to fish using gills, to us using our lungs. Life is more then bread and water, but every word from God (every breath of God?)

You might not like my reasoning that includes God, but can you refute it? Can you say that water and food is more important then breathing? Do you not acknowledge that breathing is considered a big part of some religions with the thoughts of medicine and meditation? It's not just a Christian idea that the breath is life. But it is a Christian conclusion that the breath of life comes from God. It's not disagreeing with scientific findings, but instead having some scientific findings reaffirm Christian study.

To Canem Malum.

The way you talk about growth in cycles makes me wonder if you believe in reincarnation or something. If that's the case it kind of changes the perspective of life from a biological thing or a connection to God, to instead being a force in itself. Live due cone back. (At least as I understand the concepts.

As for those in your hierarchy, do you mean those in your community? I can't tell if you're talking about the Confucius hierarchy about family, village, state, world (and which ones are part of your hierarchy). Or if you mean those that you can reach; your peers, your neighbors, your family. Or if you mean it's a set of demographics like age group, economic status, race?

The practical answer sounds good. It's a good path for chugging on. Sometimes that's all we need, and it's good if we can be happy in that. Other times (at least for me) something comes up and shakes up your journey, and it's a struggle to make ends meet, or it's a struggle to keep pushing forward. I think everyone has those moments at some point in their life. For you what's helped you move past those and get back to living life? For example, for me it's been God (at one point in my life), my family (when I was in a dark place and pushing everyone away), and my wife (who helped me find hope again and finally get out of that dark place). I think the relationships part have pulled be out of some things to stay motivated and keep going. Hopefully you've never found a similar dark place in life, but I think everyone has at some point in their lives to one degree or another.

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