Thanks for the links, frankly find reason to hope in them
But has that mass murder in that square been forgotten?
China cares little for its own people
In numbers alone it is a threat
If trade is first off the rank will another threat follow?
Is our desperate need to trade with China worth getting on our knees?

Belly,

That's what I've been on about, that like it or not, China - by rejecting democracy with all its imperfections - is inevitably moving towards becoming a huge fascist power. Its 'socialism' didn't work in the period up to about 1980, the great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were disastrous flops, certainly for the economy, so its economic policies had to move towards more of a state-controlled sort of capitalist socialism, if such a monster is possible.

But with rigid control of the population, central planning sometimes 'works', it attains some of its goals but at huge human costs, as state control of the population becomes more repressive - of course, in the interests of the people, i.e. the Party, i.e. the Central Committee, i.e. the king-pin, currently Xi Jin Ping.

I wonder if, in any Marxist socialist state (and we've had hundreds of years of combined experience now), there has ever been a single worker or peasant who attained high position - in the plethora of workers' and peasants' states, and how many instead ended up in the gulags and laogais. [Which begs the question about one-world government: where would you put the gulags ?]

Once any form of socialist state abandons its links to democratic values, it seems to degenerate over time to something resembling fascism. Sometimes not so slowly either - witness Pol Pot's Kampuchea. So perhaps Hayek (in his "The Road To Serfdom") was on the money - you either push for democracy or ultimately surrender to totalitarianism. But democracy has all sorts of imperfections, wrinkles, and is always unfinished by definition. I fear that many young people are too impatient to work through those inevitable problems (and not just young people) and clamour for something more 'certain', more 'perfect'.

Joe

Loudmouth you put my view, I think the same
And in my view trade is going to be used as a weapon, as is the loans to third world countrys
A fact in my view is China like the Japan of the 1930,s has a plan
We only have to look at its current forcing its people in to acting very much as told
Then its Muslim minority being brainwashed [some here will see nothing wrong with that]
China has us and some other parts of the world in a corner trade can and will be, used as a weapon, while interfering internally in our country and others

Do you hear the people sing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF64wzIyBOU

http://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/12/02/protesters-within-china-defy-communists-just-like-you-hong-kong/

I know you won't want to hear and and you most definitely won't want to believe it....but none of this happens without Trump.

Maybe the communists will turn the tanks on them again but what we do know is that they are mad as hell....
http://youtu.be/WINDtlPXmmE?t=71

SMH this day, remember that Chinese Liberal who stood against a Labor Chinese candidate and won?
Remember her signs made to look like official electoral commision signs
She donated one hundred thousand dollars to her campaign
And WANTS IT BACK!
Nothing to see here all ok dirty money flowing to BOTH sides of politics to buy influence is quite all right or is it?

If anyone is wondering if China is a threat to Australia then I suggest you ask the people of Hong Kong.