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The Forum > General Discussion > You deserve to be congratulated: we're not overdoing democracy

You deserve to be congratulated: we're not overdoing democracy

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So we can be immersed in media but unknowingly get only half the story. And it’s a growing phenomenon, reinforced by the thinking that the 'other' is wrong and its therefore wrong to even listen to their views. People get into their preferred media and then refuse to countenance examining other views because they are clearly wrong. And if someone does hold those counter-views they are either fools or knaves. They couldn't possibly hold counter-views honestly. So we end up with Hillary's deplorables or Obama's gun-clingers. We see it also in the great global warming debates. To some (many?) those who don't buy the whole story don't disagree on the evidence or the interpretation of the evidence, they are paid by industry, or are in the industry or have some other nefarious reason to ignore and/or downplay the obvious truth.

This of course leads to the view that the 'other' is not just someone who holds different views, but someone who is to be ignored and someone to be denied any power.

Infuriatingly, the podcasts (I read the transcript - don't like podcasts) doesn't get into the issue of what is democracy. What is it that they think is under threat? To my thinking, democracy exists to do two things only. First it is a way for peaceful regime change. Governments inevitably become tired, out of touch or out of ideas. For most of human history, that was resolved with violence. Democracy provides a way for the peaceful transfer of power. But that relies on the good graces of both sides. The defeated group needs to accept the defeat as legitimate, that the new government is both legitimate and temporary. But with these divisions and utter ignorance of the other, that becomes much more problematic. Trump's win shocked coast America and they just couldn't and don't understand it. So they refused to accept it as legitimate and have spent 3 years trying to reverse it. I suspect a Trump defeat next year would see the same from the other side. This is the real and growing threat to democracy.
/cont
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 7 November 2019 8:41:33 AM
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/cont
The second purpose of democracy is to protect the citizenry against arbitrary government interference. But again, when the other is 'deplorable', wrong and probably venal the victors are less likely to take much notice of their concerns.

While social media is undoubtedly a culprit here, its not the only one. We've always been divided so why all the angst now? I think the size of government, the way it reaches into almost every aspect of life, has a lot to do with it. Electoral outcomes these days are so much more consequential than in the past because a change in direction affects so many lives in much greater ways. Therefore the urge to protect power (or gain power) rises and the shock of loss is not just about your view not being accepted by the plurality but about your way of life within the community's way of life being threatened. In the days when the only consequence of an election was how much beer and fags would go up, the stakes weren't as high. Not now. Entire careers hang on outcomes and that breeds fanaticism.

So what is to be done? The podcast doesn't appear to have an answer because there probably isn't one. Smaller government? Well yes, but its not going to happen this side of the economic apocalypse. Better media? Well good luck with that. The private media has staked out its audience and plays to it and public media already thinks (mistakenly) it’s centrist so it’s not budging either. Better education so that citizens know and seek both sides? Imagine me smirking as I write that. No chance.

All of this is new, at least in regards to the extent of it. Society always takes a generation or two to adjust to these monumental changes. Facebook, Twitter et al are only really a decade or so old and its already suggested that the keyboard warriors are tiring of the battle. Just hang on and hope for the best and try to situate yourself so that you’re not in the path of the juggernaut.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 7 November 2019 8:41:41 AM
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Dear mhaze,

Welcome back.

You've been missed.

I trust that your procedure went well?

Are you OK?
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 7 November 2019 9:26:32 AM
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Banjo Paterson I agree with your reasoning, but there is one factor that makes anything else very difficult. The cost of government today.

Once upon a time, a time long past, most pollies elected were known to most of the constituents. Electorates had far fewer voters, who chose a highly regarded person, who most knew at least by reputation. Unfortunately we can't afford such small electorates today, with government so expensive.

It is even the same in local government elections. I find it very difficult to gather enough information on the candidates for even my ward of local council to make an informed choice.

I can't suggest an answer, but it is a growing problem.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 7 November 2019 10:28:35 AM
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I thought the content of the podcast to be benign.
In reality, the world is ruled by global corporations, which are imposing a strange secular morality, over world populations through coercive means such as dictating taste and choice of fashions. Also through censorship of literature (Amazon), and creating dictatorships geared against religions, especially Christian, (there is a Jewish conspiracy at work), which they percieve as ill-liberal.

And I could say much more on the subject, but would be wasting my time and breath here. But I'll conclude by stating, Democracy has long vanished from view.
Many above this post have well articulated the evidence to that.

I think the masses have chosen the easy road by accepting the brainwashing of mass and social media dictates. There can be no democracy as its capital is whittled away by thieving from the poor and dispossessed, below the evaporating middle class imagined societal line, and shunting the captured $ upwards through welfare bonuses given to the rich, by subsidies and tax cuts. I'm sure the Pitt Street farmers are behind further welfare directed to farmers, (lets ID who they really are) !

How would a consensus between the two groups be expected? After all, Trump rose from the ashes of the dispossessed. Is that democracy, or civil war?

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 7 November 2019 8:07:52 PM
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- Must Watch 3 Minute Video -

Princeton University - Does the Government Represent the People? (The Chart)
http://youtu.be/pi34kWz22Tk

The number of American voters for or against an idea has NO IMPACT on the likelihood that congress will make it law.
Put another way:
The preferences of the average American appear to have a miniscule, near zero, statistically non-significant impact on public policy.

- So if you've ever felt that your opinion doesn't matter and that the government doesn't really care what you think, then you're right.

But there's a catch, this only accounts for the bottom 90% of income earners in America.
Economic elites, Business interests, people who can afford lobbyists, they're different.

If they want something, the government is much more likely to do it;
And when they don't, they have the power to completely block it from happening, no matter how much the rest of the country supports it.
They get what they want, and guess who ends up paying for it?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 8 November 2019 2:12:20 AM
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