Atheist Foundation: "BOAZ_David,

There really is little point in continuing discussion with you. In this thread you have vilified Peter Singer on a falsehood and not produced a reference when asked and in the Dawkins thread you have misrepresented him by supposedly quoting RD as stating: “I hate…all religions.” The link you supplied as evidence was not a “debate” but rather a religious diatribe, so full of holes; it would not float on solid lead. There was no mention by Richard Dawkins of the words you attribute to him."

Indeed. Boazy is well known in this forum for making unsubstantiated claims, stretching the truth and telling outright porkies in order to promote his various agendas.

However, we should trust him nonetheless, because he's a good Christian, and is therefore much purer morally than us heathens.

The moral mess of "Christian values"? What about the callous chasm of atheism? What are atheist values? Nihilism? Social Darwinism?

David Nicholls asserts "that in democracies, freely chosen Atheism cannot be compared with past societies ruled by militaristic tyrants and dictators with their own hideous agendas." How convenient. In that case, one could also claim that freely chosen Christianity or Islam cannot be compared with past societies ruled by militaristic tyrants and dictators with their own hideous agendas.

Employing such logically fallacious double standards hardly provides a compelling argument for your Dawkinist "religion-is-responsible-for-all-the-world's-woes" worldview. Either your earlier attacks on religion are null and void, or you have no choice to admit that the most brutal, oppressive and mass-murdering regimes of the 20th Century were, in fact, militantly atheistic.

Dresdener, you make the same mistake time and time again.

>>... you have no choice to admit that the most brutal, oppressive and mass-murdering regimes of the 20th Century were, in fact, militantly atheistic<<

Many wars have been waged in the name of religion.

No war at all has ever been waged in the name of atheism.

Religion is identifiable by its presence. Atheism is identifiable by the absence of religion.

You cannot wage war in the cause of a negative. It is almost exclusively (and feel free to fill in if there is a gap) waged in the name of religion, or in the name of earthly power.

Earthly power may also use religion as a motivating factor. Atheism, per se, cannot.

David.... my connection of Singer with 'cull' was not a particularly tight one.. I did hear an interview with him some time ago... so perhaps I misunderstood the scope of what I heard.

DAWKINs.. I refer you to the comments of Pericles on that other thread where he specifically mentions the quote in question, and I'm gathering you listened to it.. ? but it is there...

It was not a 'diatribe' any more than your 'landslide of hate' against religion was that :)... now.. I detected much more 'hate for religion' in your posts than I detected 'hate' for non religion in the 'diatribe' you so describe. I found it quite devoid of such emotions entirely.. I found it even warm hearted.

But on not discussing with me ? that is always your perogative.

But lets be fair..you have describe "Christian values" as a 'moral mess' so..don't be surprised if people pop up to disagree with that or offer different perspectives. The level to which you engage them is up to you.

As long as we have had our 'right of reply' I'm ok with that.

If I wrote a piece on "The Moral Disaster of Atheism and MIUAUG" I'd expect you to offer your twopence worth also.

cheers.

Pericles said:

"No war at all has ever been waged in the name of atheism."

Now Pericles..I hold you personally responsible for the mess that is now on my keyboard after I almost choked on my 'MayoTwist/roll' thing which was half chewed ! when I looked at that unnnnnbelievable comment!x1000

I don't know what you call the 'Cultural Revolution' but I'll bet the 30million corpses would say "It was a war" if they could speak.
Or look at the invasion of South Korea etc etc.

Your credibility is currently in absolute tatters... The Soviet Union never waged war in the name of Atheism ?

Dresdener made excellent well argued points, not mistakes.

Glad the choking wasn't terminal, Boaz.

>>I don't know what you call the 'Cultural Revolution' but I'll bet the 30million corpses would say "It was a war" if they could speak<<

The Cultural Revolution was many things, Boaz, but it was not a war waged in the name of atheism. Infoplease describes it thus:

"[I]n an attempt to prevent the development of a bureaucratized Soviet style of Communism, Mao closed schools and encouraged students to join Red Guard units, which denunciated and persecuted Chinese teachers and intellectuals, engaged in widespread book burnings, facilitated mass relocations, and enforced Mao's cult of personality."

Neither religion nor atheism is named as the driving force behind this. Your argument seems to be "Mao was an atheist, therefore the purge was in the name of atheism". No, it was in the name of Mao. An individual. He did not mobilize forces behind the banner of atheism, as the Crusaders rallied behind the flag of Christendom. He said "do as I say, or else."

And as for:

>>Or look at the invasion of South Korea etc etc.<<

...here's what Factmonster says:

"Hoping to unify the Koreas under a single Communist government, the North launched a surprise invasion of South Korea on June 25, 1950. In the following days, the UN Security Council condemned the attack and demanded an immediate withdrawal."

Just because the protagonists were communists doesn't mean they were fighting the cause of atheism. If they were, wouldn't they check first whether the people they were fighting were also atheists - and if so, spare them?

Nope. They didn't. They were fighting a political battle, for political superiority, not for the "cause" of atheism.

>>Your credibility is currently in absolute tatters... <<

My credibility increases each time you challenge me, Boaz, so keep right on arguing.

Your problem, as I have said many many times, is that you see everything through the coke-bottle lenses of Christianity. Unfortunately, the distortion they cause prevents you from seeing that not everything in the world is explicable in terms of "Christians good, atheists dumb, Muslims evil"