David
Good comments!

Philo All Man and women you mean

You have for over a year REFUSED to comment on the lack of leadership from Church Leaders about Gos most innocent- Our Animals


What do you think about the Government giving Muslims the right to perform ritual slaughters here in Australia?
That means each animal with suffer terribly while being sacrificed to allah in Australia from now on.
Does your God have any mercy for these Animals. WILL the Church Leaders speak out NOW to stop Australia being made into a Muslim Extremist Islamic country?
Dont forget KOSHA that even more cruel.
You always ignore our questions. How say you ?

WE are very impressed with the web page David.
Good Thread.
Thanks

"1/ Love God with all your heart
2/Love your neighbour as yourself."

Sheesh, my heart is too busy pumping blood
as intended, then to worry about the gods.

As to loving my neighbour, well the new one
is pretty cute so that could be a great idea :)

David Nicholls

the points you raise are actually quite valid demographically.
The number of serious Christians in Australia, those who claim a genuine born again experience, (in contrast to those who claim this simply because the managed to babble some incoherrant words while being prompted by some enthusiastic pastor)

The more important issue than the 'real' situation of those of Christian tradition for the nation, is this:

If we acted on the demographics, and unleashed MIUAUG on the community, we would be subject to the loudest and most articulate and well funded voices.
This could lead in ANY direction, and given some of the crazy ideas that some powerful people have had in the past, this would be a great worry.

Of one thing we may be absolutely sure. The 'agenda' would NEVER be simply limited to the issues you list on your web site. They simply represent a 'victim' characterization of certain fringe sub groups, in order to achieve their immediate political objectives.

Once they are 'in'...what next ? Well, if the history of Israel is anything to go by, and that of Rome and Greece, we will end up in a condition where the people say "Even the gods are worse than us".

I suggest the following will emerge.

-Euthenasia no longer for the benefit of the suffering person,but for the benefit of the suffering SOCIETY which has to support them.
-Convenience Infanticide
-Culling the disabled and weak (Singer)
-Cloning for maximum biological advantage.
-Widespread 'gene selection' for 'preferred' characteristics among offspring, with no regard for biological heritage from parents.
-Sexual practices extending the 'age of consent' to child, and to other species.

Just to name a few.

So, if this is your vision for the future, I'd like to know this up front.

So, if you want 'moral mess' I just gave it to you.

David
Thats a good question for YOU to answer as well as Philo??

Yabby
Ah but you will break PFs heart.

I haven’t the time or the desire to answer posts on this thread that are self-circumventing (Destroy there own propositions) but I will mention one as an example. Philo stated: “Christians are taught that all life in all stages is sacred.” Inquisitorial Christians were taught that ‘witches’ should be tortured and burnt. Aztecs taught that cutting out the still beating heart of live humans, made crops fertile. Germans in their highly religious country were taught that ‘the Jew’, the Christ killers, were the cause of their woes. This was accomplished by the Catholic Hitler and his henchmen. Such results as these have been the hallmark of humans not thinking for themselves but accepting the word of the ‘authorities’.

Stalinist Russia was ruled for hundreds of years, both politically and religiously, by the opulent living Czar’s exercising absolute power over a peasant population which was ripe to be controlled by some type of despot or other. Stalin filled this role. He trained as a priest and therefore knew how to manipulate the population. One should read up on the history of these events before making wild assumptions that Atheism is the cause.

The point I am making is that in democracies, freely chosen Atheism cannot be compared with past societies ruled by militaristic tyrants and dictators with their own hideous agendas. It is obvious by the freedoms and equality in a very Atheistic Western Europe, that attempting to equate Atheism with 20th century atrocities is a false notion and is a nonsense used only by those out of argument.

BOAZ makes unfounded predictions. We will start to look here and then the next post.

Voluntary – Euthanasia - has been operating in The Netherlands for decades and in other countries as well

David Nicholls

Extending voluntary euthanasia to kill on a non-voluntary basis has not happened any more than the 100kph speed limit has been extended to 200kph and for the same reasons. Society rightly sees it as unethical.

Convenience Infanticide - is just rubbish and does not need an answer and for the same reasons as above.

Culling the disabled and weak (Singer) – Peter Singer does not advocate that at all. The closest he comes is that he suggests it is not an act worthy of humans to starve encephalitic babies (Ostensibly born with no brain) to death, and he asks; is that a good thing. Please supply references for Peter Singer advocating “culling the disabled and weak”.

Cloning for maximum biological advantage. – Cloning of humans is something that needs full information so people can make an informed decision with proper scientific and ethical considerations taken into account. This should not be hampered by pre-set religious answers.

Widespread 'gene selection' for 'preferred' characteristics among offspring, with no regard for biological heritage from parents. – “Biological heritage” means nothing to adopted children, a point always pushed by the fanatical religious right in preference to abortion. I think you should be consistent. “Widespread gene selection” is a meaningless phrase. Again, a fully informed public with proper ethical and scientific input will set the pace. Absolutist religion will do nothing but obscure any benefits.

Sexual practices extending the 'age of consent' to child, and to other species. – This is just plain stupid and shows contempt for humanity that is brought about by your religious indoctrination. A basic strict precept of modern democracy is that the powerless must not be utilised by the powerful and excludes both examples.

Allow me to add a prediction of my own. It will be eventually recognised by the whole of society that indoctrinating children with a singular religious view, especially with the threat of hell if not believed, is mental child abuse.

Do you ‘believe’ in hell, BOAZ?

David Nicholls