Hi Boaz,
I agree with your PoV in instances where abortion is sought by a woman for vanity or financial hardship reasons given the ready availability of preventative measures.

The issue of rape is altogether different for a woman, any woman even a woman who is a 'christian'. I do not believe that in those circumstances it is appropriate for 'lawmakers' to foist their personal values on all and sundry.

Here is another scenario for reflection: what if the rape victim is a 12, 13 or 14 yo child? Would you, in keeping with your religious, ethical or personal values allow the pregnancy to carry to full term? What if the rapist was infected with any one of those sexually transmitted diseases?

It is one thing to make laws which bind society to inflexible values of any origin whether religious or ethical. But the reality is that the unpredictability of future events and the variety of possible reactions vary from the person to person. Inflexible laws only perpetuate an every increasing burden on the one's they seek to protect, particularly the most disadvantaged or voiceless.

That does not however mean that I advocate the total abolition of 'laws'. Society does need to function smoothly with minimum disruption/disadvantage for 'all' citizens not just a few. The onus then is on our lawmakers to take their responsibilities seriously enacting laws without preference, prejudice or favour. A hard ask by any standard but that is what they get paid so handsomely to accomplish.

AFOAI,

If hypothetically in both cases the Christian value thing is flaunted for political gain and they aren't particularly devout that would explain their lack of forthcomingness. In that possibility they wouldn't want to commit to any Christian value as it would make it harder for them to avoid the value. I haven't yet looked at your link but I am aware that they gave a talk for some Christian group and didn't hit on any key substantive issue just a sugar coated gloss that you would expect from politicians. At least they are consistent (ly avoidant).

You might consider other possibilities for a failure of the politicians to respond. You obviously have some knowledge of some survey that indicates that more than half the population are atheists. However I am aware of the reverse result and I suspect that the research contrary to yours is better known. On this basis the politicians probably view you as an extreme example of a minority and don't consider it politically expedient to pin down their beliefs when the repercussions for silence are minimal and any written response could be used against them at any time in their career.

If you want to know what Christian values BOAZY has listed a few. Loving God is the main rule with loving other people as a second biggy. Thus anything that disrespects or harms the human being is a no no. As BOAZY typed gay marriage/adoption (I don't know why BOAZY separates them) and abortion are not something promoted by Christian values.

Having said that someone labelling themselves as Christian - particularly a politician cannot be guaranteed to subscribe to even the most basic widely known Christian values. The threat is not as great as you assume. Compare existing laws with the Christian values and you will see what I mean.

Callie,

"Just wondering...because once a "christian" friend of mine said to me" you would make a good 'christian'" I said why and she stated because I help people. Why do I have to believe in someone else's god in order to help people? Can't I just be me and have no god to run my life? Why does everything have to revolve around religion and not just revolve around each individual?"

In spite of the way it made you feel your friend was actually trying to pay you a compliment based on an observation they had made. They were just talking from a different perspective and a misunderstanding has occurred. Internalising Christian values means being a type of person. You are already voluntarily and for the right reasons being that type of person. Your friend interprets this as displaying Christian values in your life. Some people need a bit of work to get there. Your friend is noticing the positive attribute and probably thinking that it would be easy for you to be a Christian because you have a lot of it wrapped up already.

Helping people is a good thing and you don't need to believe in anything more than you believe in now. What you believe in and what you don't believe in is your choice. You have just been involved in a kind of cultural misunderstanding which hopefully I have explained above.

Further, from the Christian perspective God isn't someone else's God He is already your God. Christians believe that some people believe it and others don't but nevertheless consider it fact. In other words Christian believe that God is everyone's. You will invariably be you whether you are religious or non-religious. You have no choice. However for a Christian everything does revolve around religion because the belief is that God is ... God whether we believe or not.

Please don't be offended and just realize that a compliment was intended.

A few observations so far:

(1) The 2006 Census figures stated that 64% of the population of Australia is Christian. Less than half of a percent recorded other than Christian.

20% of the population are children under the age of 14. They are not of voting age and parrot their parent’s religion. As one third of these have been recorded as having no religion or not stated, it leaves two thirds, or about 13% counted in the overall 64%. If that number is removed, the voting religious adherent is about 51% (Excluding playing around with the small ‘other than Christian’ number.)

Considering the question is loaded in asking premeditatedly: “What is the religion of the person?” and knowing that robotic human behaviour leaves it open to be answered by religion of baptism and not necessarily that of present status, the figure for religious numbers is overstated by an unknown amount. A parent answering for the rest of the family may not also answer correctly as others in the family may not wish to rock the boat and upset parents.

The question needs refining to a large degree and until it is, the educated guess of the AFA is as good as, if not better than, those of a religious persuasion. As only a small percentage of religious adherents, statistically actually frequent a church on a regular basis, ads weight to our case.

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australi

Further observations.

(2) The Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc has existed for 37 years and is a world respected body. It is the largest secular organisation in Australia and possibly the Southern hemisphere with members in all states and territories and overseas.

(3) The AFA is not attempting to make women have abortions. It is simply stating that female fertility control should not be in the hands of any one ideology as none are universally accepted as being valid, but should remain a choice of the pregnant female. Prohibition on abortion has a disastrous history. One hundred thousand alive, sentient women die each year because of it. It is not helped by religious insistence that sex education of children be extremely limited. Children, according to age, women and the population make better choices when fully informed.

(4) Similarly with legal voluntary euthanasia. The choice should be one of those in need and not of a single ideology that is not universally accepted. On both these last two points, if you are religious and do not want an abortion or LVE, then do not choose them. But do not involve yourselves with choosing for other people.

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australi

Christians are taught that all life in all stages is sacred. That includes the unborn child. If we recognise a person is destroying the life of an innocent, especially human, we have a conscience to recognise that person is guilty of causing death equivalent to murder.

All men are equal, was one of the values mentioned by both John Howard and Kevin Rudd. Anyone who demeans another to destroy them is in violation of that value.

William Wilberforce 200 years ago convinced of this Christian value through political perseverence managed to free all men in Britain of slavery. This was one of the commissioning values of Christ "to set captives free" Luke 4:18 as slavery was practised by war victors, especially the Romans in Jesus Day.