Labor backed the wrong horse, galloping down the global warming path, use of authority to change our power supply system, & our cars. Obviously the left have fallen for their own rhetoric, & started to believe in global warming, & dream that the public was as silly. The delicious thing is, I doubt they believe it themselves, but thought enough of the public did. Silly folk.

So what now? I watched Anthony Albanese & Tanya Plibersek on the Channel 9 election coverage. I don't watch TV much, so had never seen the man speak. I'm sorry Labor, if you consider him as leader material, Morrison might be in the lodge as long as Menzies.

I saw a confused little man, who refused to accept the reality of what was happening right before his eyes. He was as confused as the very stupid US media people watching Trump's win. A rabble-rouser perhaps, on a good day, but definitely not leadership material.

Then Tanya Plibersek on the same show. Smarter than Albanese for sure, & better at hiding the true woman, but still obviously a hard left feminist, with leanings approaching communist. At least as nasty as Gillard, & probably as responsible for the faulty strategy that caused this loss as anyone.

With these 2 as possible leaders, I wonder if Labor will survive. The old Labor Belly loves & has given total loyalty to for decades, obviously no longer exists. They have gone after the trendy smart ass inner city types & academia, at the expense of both the workers & reality. Perhaps they should bury the party along with Bob, their last leader worth feeding.

I was going to respond to your post but your name says it all. Hasbeen. That is, thing of the past. Scary to think there are people who still think like you. I had hoped they were beginning to die off. Luckily, there are plenty of EDUCATED young people who will correct the peasant ignorance of their predecessors.

How typical of a lefty. Nothing to say to refute the argument, so attack the man.

About as confused as confused as Albanese

I watched Albanese and I thought that he spoke like a little boy who had just missed getting a toffee apple.

Labor is in the wilderness for the foreseeable future, it hasn't had a working-class leader since the late Ben Chifley, it became a refuge for lawyers who wanted a change of scenery.

If Scomo & Co get into gear asap Labor will not need to worry about leadership for some time to come.
Remember that elections are lost rather than won ! The surest way out for a Govt is to not act quick enough on issues that matter to constituents, be they silly or otherwise. Govt has to take everyone into account !
All they really need to do is to make the local economy a primary component in the policies they introduce. Letting people have more in the pocket is the best way to save money for a Govt.
No need to increase wages if Govt charges & fees are somewhat reduced. There's enough funding to go round just stop wasting so much of it !

What a huge relief...I personally left the Labor party behind in the late seventies.
However, i continued my eyes wide open approach towards the liberals and national party, noting their divisive rule totally centered towards the landed gentry.

Seems obvious to me, Labor failure was a creation of the cultural vandals, the Greens tail wagging of the dog.

Dumb and dumber, until even a half brained dolt could recognise the dangers of Labor rule towards actual survival. Their total subservience of all other considerations, towards a vandalising of Australian culture with gay rights.

My own litmus test of all scumbag politicians, is on the pulse of people I know in my own community, rendered homeless by greedy landlords, without a care from national party sitting member. These were pensioners, local families and a balance of working poor.
Not a murmer of empathy, but actually supported the dead deal, under the guise of market forces at work, as cashed up road workers from highway upgrades, flooded the small town.

LNP politicians support the wealthy, as Morrison will during his term, against all-else!

Then escalating power bills, where others I know read by street light through loungroom windows to save power. This is stuff of John Stynbeck.

I won't accept the notion LNP are any improvement . Not a bit, the increasing incidence of underprivileged is a glaring failure of uncaring politicians recruited from the ranks of the wealthy, ensuring privilege stays in the elite upper branches, and welfare will continue to be subject to a trickle down aimed towards middle class greed, already over fat from handouts.

What we need is not more of the same. We need revolution.

Dan.

Well I think Charmers should be a consideration for the leadership.

I had spoken about my dislike of Shorten a number of times on this forum. I think the Labour party had some strong policies but in the end Morrison did what Keating did to Houston over the GST. Go hard on the negative campaigning raising the spectre of huge tax increases via a comsumption tax.

This was despite Keating having been on record as having favoured just such a tax. Howard had to wait a full term before bringing the GST after promising not to in the first. Interestingly Morrison had also been eyeing negative gearing as treasurer but ferociously attacked Shorten over it.

But in the end it was mistrust of Shorten that allowed Clive Palmer's 80 million dollar campaign targeting "Shifty Shorten" and the message "Who do you trust with the economy" to be so effective.

I personally couldn't shake the feeling the Shorten had the potential of doing an Abbott. He always remained behind in the preferred leader stakes and for me it was with some justification. My partner was sympathetic to Labour's policies but really struggled to give him their vote.

I spoke for 20 minutes a couple of days out from the election from someone who had volunteered at our local Lib's office to make calls to electors. He wasn't a party member but just felt he had to do something to may sure Shorten didn't get into office. We got chatting and we actually saw eye to eye on a whole bunch of things yet he just wouldn't have a bar of Shorten.

So my choice for Labour leader would be someone like Jim Chalmers. He is relatively young but experienced, he doesn't have the baggage of someone like Albo or even Tanya, and being a northener he wouldn't have made such a strategic mess of Queensland although Bob Brown certainly did the cause no favours. My second pick would be Bowen.

Well they would be a better choice for Labor than Albanese who sat there like a stunned mullet, muttering "there's a long way to go yet", or Plibersek, who was really struggling not to show how much she despised Julie Bishop.

ensuring privilege stays in the elite upper branches,
diver dan,
That's exactly what I witnessed in the Labor-heavy public service run communities in the North.
Scomo must ensure that the Leftist pushed & perpetuated perception of Conservatives being what in fact is a Leftist trait among the Public Service ranks.
Corrupt & incompetent bureaucrats leading a Tory-kind of life by constantly blaming Toryism for their economic mismanagement mess .
Why can't so many people not see that these parties have literally reversed roles ?

The biggest problem that the new government has is to get our
electricity system into order.
Their problem is they do not a lot of time to do the job.
We have many many years of coal available. However we do have to make
plans to replace it because of world decine in energy return on energy
invested in mining coal. So we have a choice;
We can muddle along using the coal, or we can sell it and make the
money to build nuclear power stations.
It is now becoming clear that we cannot afford to build a power system
built on wind, solar, batteries, pumped hydro and any other variation
all tied together with a high capacity grid covering the whole of
Australia. The basic problem is the amount of multiplication needed to
keep chasing the best weather around the country to obtain a system
with the same reliability and capacity as our previous system.
There seems to be no alternative to nuclear.

The government should appoint a firm of civil engineers to ascertain
which part of the Bradfield scheme should be implemented first.
All the waffle about umpteen other pet schemes must take second place.
In the bin should go all those "woke" projects such as gender fluidity
school climate strikes and "safe" nonsense.
The PM has a short time when he can do those things before the left
has time to reorganise themselves and the senate.

Maybe Labour should offer Malcolm Turnbull the job.

Turnbull gone, Banks gone, Bishop gone, Pyne gone. Maybe with all these regressive gw alarmist gone their is hope for the Liberal party. ScoMo could give Abbott the post Shorten had promised Bishop. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Labor lost, it did not die, it lost because it has become self interested looking at itself not the voters
It too tried to be shifty on things like the Queensland mine
It knew that mine would go ahead,even if it won the election
It pandered to the green left ,ignoring they, in the end, vote for us in any case,it left its own base out in the cold
It loved Bill, refused to see some did not, to put it mildly
BUT climate change is real
In time even America will act on it, far more importantly Morrison will too
We are headed for a financial crisis, some lard heads will[as they did in the last one] blame the government for it
Labor needs to pick the right leader Anthony Albanese, in my view
Neens to get away from the white shirt upwardly mobile air wasters who are in the party to progress themselves not the party

While I think that Shorten was toxic, the real reason that Labor threw away the election was their toxic policies.

1) Adani - Labor's hostile policy to this mine and against Mining generally essentially saw Labor lose every seat in Queensland north of Brisbane. Brown eyed Bob's caravan from Melbourne was the last straw.

2) The retiree tax managed to piss off just about everyone over 65 and those planning for retirement.

3) The capital gains tax not only managed to worry homeowners that saw their investment shrinking or going into negative equity, but many small business who saw their ability to claim tax rebates again investments evaporate.

4) Labor's promise of a budget surplus in the face of a massive increase in spending completely lacked credibility.

To sum it up, Bill Shorten made the error of announcing his policies ahead of the election, if he had simply followed KRudd's and Juliar's examples of promising prudence and ignoring the promises after the election, he would be in power now.

Belly no leader could have sold Labors crazy policies.

Even if global warming were true, wind & solar can not supply our power requirements, & cost the earth, while simply buggering up the grid.

Look at Germany if you won't believe me. They are building coal fired power as quickly as they can, now they have gone all silly about nuclear.

Electric cars may be, but probably are not, the next big thing in private transport. That is something that should be left up to the consumer to decide. We can't afford idiot lawyers to decide our fate on this or anything else.

In the unlikely event your mob come back to earth, they might have some chance, otherwise we are in the hands of Labor light for years.

Adani obviously played a big part in Qld but I think the major part is the present Qld Premier & her administration's performance. They simply raise fees when they need more money instead of managing the State. Registration is out of hand in Qld as are minor traffic fines. Forgetting a registration incurs a $450.- fine ?? Imagine a single mother or someone out of work ? This Premiers outfit is causing so much social misery that it is bordering on the dangerous.
Of course, her predecessor laid the foundation of mismanagement but I recall his successor pledging to make this better. Her femocrat club was certainly distracted from doing that !

Someone, I think that it was Waleed Aly, predicted that Labor would win 81 seats.

I'm happy to say that I predicted that Labor would lose, I had a bet on it too and picked up a nice return.

Hasbeen said that the change to electric cars should be market driven
rather than by regulation. That will ensure the costs are minimal.
The change will happen, it is happening now. The only reason it is not
so noticeable here is because the factories are running flat out
building left hand drive versions.
The looming difficulties in the oil industry such as Angola.
They were a very large exporter of oil but peak oil in Angola was in
2010 and it has reached the point where the economy is collapsing
petrol is almost unattainable and there are large financial difficulties.
The tight oil producers in the US are in financial difficulties also.
Shell and others are planning how to disentangle themselves from the oil industry.
Governments and motor industries are reading the tea leaves.
The change is being driven by oil industry problems.
It has nothing to do with global warming.

I agree with SR about Chalmers.

I think Labor's 'big end of town' not only encompassed those greedy self-funded retirees in their 60's but also aspirants a decade and a half out from a self-funded retirement.

Shorten's class-warfare rhetoric bit him in the arse by making aspiration a sin.

Phelps has been given the bum's rush, and things will be back to normal in Wentworth. And, blondey in Warringah will be a one term wonder. An anti-Abbott vote there, not a vote for a completely unknown bimbo.

Australians have called a halt to the leftist crap. And, it is quite clear now that anything but a vote for Liberal or Labor in the lower house is a wasted vote, and your independents and odd bods will only ever be effective in the senate. I wrote 'none of these' in the lower house paper, bit I will probably vote Liberal next time, given Morrison's amazing campaign. He had to do it on his own because he has nothing but dills on his front bench.

Where to for Labor? Who gives a shite?

I don't think so Bazz. As for factories running flat out, the sales of the Chevy Volt were so bad, even with large subsidies, they have dropped the thing from the range.

Good luck charging half the cars on the road each night, without a few new coal fired plants, or a couple of nuclear. I saw some figurers the other day. It would cost billions to retrofit inner city high rise apartment block power systems, to allow car charging, & if that was done, it would cost billions more to upgrade inner city grids to supply the power to them.

Personally I don't give a damn. I am never going to buy another new, or near new car. I much prefer my cars more mature. They become interesting only after their 40Th birthday for me.

Yes we might have petrol supply problems, but only if government force it. We have very large reserves of shale oil. Any decent government would mandate that those wishing to sell fuel in Oz harvest that oil, & refine it here.

I doubt such far sighted action by either of our big 2, so it might be back to buying gasoline by the gallon from the chemist shop, if we allow these lefties to destroy our civilisation. Just one thing is for sure, we won't power a modern civilisation by wind or solar cell, & we sure won't charge a million electric cars by it either.

Dear Hasbeen,

You wrote;

“Look at Germany if you won't believe me. They are building coal fired power as quickly as they can, now they have gone all silly about nuclear.”

Will I didn't believe you so I went and checked;

“On 26 January 2019, a group of federal and state leaders as well as industry representatives, environmentalists, and scientists made an agreement to close all 84 coal plants in the country by 2038. The move is projected to cost €40 billion in compensation alone to closed businesses. Coal was used to generate almost 40% of the country's electricity in 2018 and is expected to be replaced by renewable energy. 24 coal plants are planned to be closed by 2022 with all but 8 closed by 2030. The final date is expected to be assessed every 3 years.”
Wikipedia

LA Times repeat the story;

“Germany, one of the world’s biggest consumers of coal, will shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years to meet its international commitments in the fight against climate change, a government commission said Saturday.
The announcement marked a significant shift for Europe’s largest country — a nation that had long been a leader on cutting CO2 emissions before turning into a laggard in recent years and badly missing its reduction targets. Coal plants account for 40% of Germany’s electricity, itself a reduction from recent years when coal dominated power production.”
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-coal-power-20190126-story.html

So your assertion was a lie.

Forwardplease's "there are plenty of EDUCATED young people who will correct the peasant ignorance of their predecessors."

Don't you just love the smugness of the young ? Why not just ask them now about everything while they know it ? And the big joke is that they too will grow old.

Let's face it, the Labor Party gambled to push the electorate towards the 'Left', in conjunction with the Greens and at least one of the 'Independents': good old leftist political strategy. The Labor Party abandoned much of the working class, i.e. the miners and the urban, non-Anglo workers (who never get any attention), which moved towards One Nation and the Liberals. I certainly hope their next leader - elected by the membership - has more sense.

It will be interesting to compare 'polling on the night' with 'pre-polling' voter preferences. I think there are a couple of surprises yet.

Joe

So where to for Labor now?

Choosing a new leader is the first job.

I am leaning towards someone without previous
the baggage. Someone who would
be able to articulate an agenda for economic growth -
not just talk about how it needs to re-distribute wealth.

Someone Who will see that they have to respect the
election and try to work out how they can do better.
Someone who will see that it is time for a re-think
and not be focused on the blame game.

Who that person is - I frankly don't know.
I hesitate in recommending Antony Albanese or Tanya
Plibersek - because they do have previous baggage.

If this election was supposed to be about climate change, as the lefties claimed ... well climate change well and truly lost, and the polls were bollocks.

Socialism lost.
Identity politics lost.
Political Correctness lost.

The silent majority has put things straight.

'Socialism lost.
Identity politics lost.
Political Correctness lost.'

as much as I agree with you ttbn don't forget that the Vic's recently voted in Daniel Andrews with a landslide. Strange at the Federal level the pundits see through all the lies that you listed but at state level it appears the opposite. The disposal of all the regressives from the Liberal party and now Phelps is very refreshing. Hopefully like Trump the tearing up of the Paris fraud will be next.

Here are 10 reasons why Labor lost - more or less in accordance with Mark Powell in the Spectator:

Bill Shorten
Bill Shorten
Hawkes death reminding us how poorly Shorten measures up to the great man.
Shorten’s inability to cost policies.
Bob Brown and and anti-Adani gang in Queensland.
Israel Folau emphasising Labor’s lack of commitment to freedom of speech.
Threats to religious schools’ ability to hire whom they want
Gender nonsense.
Plibersek’s widening of abortions at taxpayer expense.
Scott Morrison.

Plus everything else, of course.

I wrote on another thread that there will be
a great deal of soul searching. Questions will
arise about polling, over preferences from
Clive Palmer and Pauline Hanson's One Nation
and of course over the very ambitious policy
agenda that Labor set.

Also of course there will be questions about the
leadership of the outgoing Opposition Leader.
Just as there were about Tony Abbott and
Malcolm Turnbull. That's nothing new in
politics. Playing the blame game is par for
the course.

But before anyone gets too smug - lessons
are to be learned from this election.

Despite 3 PMs in two terms of government the
Queensland swing to back the Coalition and swings
in Tasmania and WA showed us all that ultimately
jobs, and of course fear of change, were too dominant.

The PM focused on this - downplaying the Liberal
failures over the two terms,
and cultivating a new Scott Morrison image down-playing
the Liberal brand and -
promising to be a steady pair of hands on the economy.

We shall now have to wait and see whether the man can
actually deliver.

He's been returned in his own right.
He can't get knocked off. He should have the
authority within his own party to set the course. With
Tony Abbott gone, Scott Morrison can now look at some of
the elements of the Labor campaign and try to work out the
issues that motivated people to vote Labor - things
like an energy policy - for example - and negative gearing
reform.

We shall have to wait and see whether he will be able to
get something done - and not have a repeat of the same mess
that we've had. A blame game and scare campaign
can only work up to a point - and for a while.
People are now expecting to see results.
If they're not delivered - it may well be a different
outcome at the next election in three years time -
depending also of course on who Labor will choose as their
leader and what sort of a plan he/she will have.

cont'd ...

Tanya Plibersek has announced that she will not
be running for the position of Labor Leader.
She says that the time is not right for her due
to family commitments.

A wise move.

I have to agree with much of what you have written Foxy. The problem both parties have is to appeal to a divided nation. Labour seem to be winning seats where people are wealthy and have the privilege to push ideologies. Working people who now are concerned about jobs and electricity prices have turned to the Liberal party or One Nation in droves. Yep the rich idealist certainly helped in unseating Abbott while the same people helped the Liberals win many seats in Queensland with their push to wipe out jobs in the Coal Industry. The huge advantage the Liberals have now is the clear air Morrison has with probably the most humilated person on Saturday night not being Bill Shorten but Malcolm Turnbull. Personally I think Labour are going to be very very divided especially after losing the 'working man's' vote.

Fowardplease, this is a right of reality site, stay, enjoy
Labor did not die, it will rise again, my heart tells me Scomo will never be easy to remove
But that a new Labor leader ALBO please, will be competitive
Too nothing will stop a globale set bach, [financial] in the next three years
He like Rudd will be blamed
Too climate change will continue to be a reason for internal war in his government

Dear runner,

Can you please give me a single Labour Party policy which you deem socialist or are you just speaking slogans again.

Belly,

It's more of a 'reality website', mate. Face up to it: Shorten's dithering on Adani cost Labor Queensland, even if it pulled a few votes among the affluent inner-city, i.e. the 'New Labor' supporters.

And "Bugger the workers. Let them go over to ON and the Coalition, we don't need a bunch of bogans" - seems to be the gamble that the Labor 'left' took, and lost.

Just out of interest: have you noticed something similar to this: when I started as a laborer, back in the mid-sixties, even then, there really weren't too many Australian-born workers: most of my work-mates were Greek, Italian, Maltese, Yugoslav, and some Brits. The bosses and foremen were usually Australian (or Brits). When I was working in NZ a few years later, most of my work-mates were Maori or Polynesian. Terrific workers.

I was selling hippy beads at the Auckland Show in 1970, and the British bloke next door was demonstrating onion-peeling machines. I asked him who worked those machines in Britain: West Indian and South Asian women. Who worked the ones he had sold in NZ: Maori and Polynesian women. Who worked the ones he sold in Australia: Greek, Yugoslav, Lebanese and Turkish women. Not too many locals.

So even back then, fifty years ago now, the Aussie battler had got out of factory work and either gone solo or moved up the hierarchy (and certainly made sure his kids, if they had any sense, got a decent education). I wouldn't be surprised if, even in mining, the picture was similar now - that ironically, perhaps a South African migrant worker has found himself working down the mines in Australia. For which, by the way, he would perhaps have had plenty of expertise.

There have been a lot of myths in Australia. "A working class packed with true-blue Aussies", for one. Even if the higher echelons of the Labor Party make it seem that way.

Cheers,

Joe

'Socialism lost.
Identity politics lost.
Political Correctness lost.'
runner,
They'll replace it with more sinister tactics !

Steelie

'Dear runner,

Can you please give me a single Labour Party policy which you deem socialist or are you just speaking slogans again.'

$1 billion dollars a year of workers money to the most Marxist propaganda machine in Australia (obviously the abc)

Joe,

Your post reminded me of my days in the dockyard in the 1980s,'90s;
I worked with Greeks, Italians, Indians, Lebanese, Armenians, English, Irish, Scots, Hungarians and a couple of Frenchmen (but they were on loan from the French Navy), the workforce was mainly Australian but the proportion was about 30% born overseas.

Dear runner,

"In a ranking of 18 major western countries,
Australia came in eighth lowest for per
capita funding of public broadcasting. The
ABC’s per capita funding is 34% lower than
the average of other public broadcasters,
including the BBC. Norway, Switzerland
and Germany each provide per capita
funding to their public broadcasters at least
150% more than Australia"

And

"In real terms, ABC operational revenue from
government has fallen by 28% between
1985-6 and 2017-18 (from $1.2 billion to
$865 million).4

In 1987, the ABC cost each Australian eight
cents a day; in 1987 dollar terms it is now
4c a day – per capita funding has halved
over 30 years."

Both parties fund and support the ABC. So why is it that this is a 'socialist' Labour policy?

Why don't you try again. Name one policy the Labour party took to this election which you deem socialist.

Steelie

Your denials don't change facts. The abc is full of Marxist/feminist dogma and commentators.

SteeleRedux,
Of course the BBC costs more because of the higher integrity in reporting !

"Socialism lost.
Identity politics lost.
Political Correctness lost."

All true, but also lost are the captives on Nauru, which Australian pirates cruelly hijacked on the high seas so many years ago and still refuse to release, even into the hands of a kind country that is happy to accept them.

Many experience relief, but they only experience the darkest despair.

Vengeance has won.

Business applauds the win by the sensible centre:

"Scott Morrison’s stunning election win delivered a $33 billion sharemarket surge, marking the second biggest post-poll jump in three decades as investors bet on a property market recovery, a stronger business environment and resurgent household spending spurred by tax cuts.

Banks and health insurers led a relief rally, now that Bill Shorten’s big-spending agenda, including a tougher regulatory environment for banks and a clampdown on negative gearing, has been binned.

Economists and business leaders are expecting an economic stimulus to be unleashed by the Prime Minister’s tax cuts which, when paired with the likelihood of two imminent Reserve Bank interest rate cuts, will reignite household spending after growth slowed over the second half of last year."

Well it has always been my view [one I hid here] that Bill carried the blame for Rudd and Gillard
Too that we needed to define ourselves and try winning greens back, not supporting them
Too ALBO has no ones blood on his hands
He is a blokey man with a good feeling for the average person, he should rule
But the party machine may ,still, be blind to what voters want

Belly,
Yeah keep up the propaganda on the climate religion as the public have shown they do not think it an issue and that suits me. When you can show concrete evidence that human activity causes climate change and that we can heighten or lower the world temp, I will fall into line with you. We could try and show our influence over volcanos and earthquakes for a start, maybe change the tides and stop the wind from blowing. Hey, can we stop continental drift?

Mean while I will continue on advocating lower and more selective immigration and against multiculturalism ideology.

Yuyutsu, the reason that the detainees were not sent to NZ was because
NZ would not remove the right to come to Australia by right.
That path has long been a way around Australian immigration rules.

Dear runner,

So not a single one then.

SR

Labor huge tax and spend agenda is textbook socialism:

"Socialism as defined by the Socialist International’s Declaration of Principles, Progressive Politics For A Fairer World.

The redistribution of wealth is the essence of socialism While communism purports to equalize the amount of wealth every person can enjoy by having the state manage all the means of production of wealth (which has failed miserably in every instance), socialism has the aim of redistributing wealth through progressive taxation...."

Belly,

I see that Albo is the front runner in the race to lead Labor. While I admit that he is less toxic than Shorten, the fact that he comes from the left faction of the party might give him more appeal amongst the party faithful, but amongst the electorate who have overwhelmingly rejected labor's left swing, his selection probably will cement Labor in opposition for a 4th term.

Come off it Yuyutsu.

We will repatriate free of charge, all those attempted gate crashers still in custody. Our only requirement is that they don't manage to gate crash their way into Oz.

We continually see those who got in, returning to the country where they supposedly feared for their life, to get a promised wife. Their fears were always make believe, & only the very short of intelligence fall for it.

Surely sitting in a tropical island paradise is better than any refugee camp they pretend they would now be inhabiting. If not their plane is waiting for them to board.

Hi Hasbeen,

Yes. I was on a crowded bus, squashed up next to an African woman; I suggested that if the driver took any more on-board, we'd have to get married. She laughed heartily; in conversation later, she told me of her eighteen years in a refugee camp in Guinea; but she was happy now, with all her kids and working in Australia.

Yes, repatriate those illegal immigrants back to Indonesia, show them how to apply for refugee status, join the queue and take their turn, without prejudice - their illegal attempt to jump the queue wiped from the record. Of course, it might take eighteen years :(

Cheers,

Joe

Dear Shadow Minister,

Our franking credit system is that generous that it only exists in one country, Australia. Our negative gearing concessions are that generous that they only exist in two countries, one of them Australia.

So by your definition all other countries including the US are also employing deeply socialist policies because they aren't mimicking us. Calling Labour's moves to end these generous loopholes marxist and socialist is idiotic in the extreme and shows how amoral your side of politics have become.

Henry L thats the way head butt the wall and tell me my view has less worth than yours
I do not need to show you the evidence
Science has done that, and knows far more than you and I do
As the migration/Refugees show me, please, what form of government can or wants to stop them totally
Never the less your view, wrong as it is, should tell Labor how many think about both these issues and by default it

'When you can show concrete evidence that human activity causes climate change and that we can heighten or lower the world temp, I will fall into line with you.'

jolly cold here HenryL. I will breathe harder in order warm the place up and reduce the cost of my heating. Really Belly's ignorance of this topic shows how easy anyone mentioning science no matter how illogical can fool people. Thankfully the deplorables which Belly was once part of saw through the con. Its the inner city elites who live in the rich suburbs and have large amounts of their super tied up in renewables that push this garbage while pretending its a 'moral' issue.

runner glass houses and all that, YOU should never call anyone ignorant
Glad no you know you know more the science UN , and every country out in front of us on climate change

SR,

Our company tax rate is one of the highest in the world, if it was lower the franking credits would be less important, and the majority of the people that would have affected were retirees for whom the tax made a difference. As for negative gearing, other than for houses it is pretty much accepted around the world and Labor's changes would have made the capital gains tax just about the highest in the world.

There are equity issues associated with imputation credits and different classes of retirees I raised on another thread, and for which I proposed a solution, grandfathered of course:

Dividend imputation was introduced by Keating to stop double taxation then Costello virtually dissolved the distinction between a company entity and its shareholders by allowing direct payment of imputation credits, and not just a tax-offset. The initial intent of removing double taxation was not to dissolve the distinction. Who's right on this depends on who's in power.

My compromise proposal is to allow the same amount credited as is allowed to be earned by welfare-based pensioners ($4,472p.a. for a single, $7,904 for a couple, indexed). Thereafter, those pensioners would have their welfare payments affected as now, while self-funded retirees would be taxed on credits received beyond the same amount.

NG should be allowed to a limit per taxpayer, 10K feels right, beyond which losses must be carried forward to write down against future profits or capital gain. CGT should revert to indexation of the cost base then taxation at the full marginal rate. Alternatively, the taxpayer could opt for no indexation and a 25% concession.

Some say because no concession is allowed on income from employment, none should be allowed capital gain. I say a concession is OK because a capital gain is realised in a lump that can project the taxpayer into a very high tax bracket in the single year the asset is realised. CGT could paid in installments in each FY an asset is held, but this is impractical for many asset classes. And what to do about capital losses if such a scenario was adopted, should the be able to be a part of the NG limit.

My aim here is to find agreement between the political parties over a way forward that will maintain a steady system regardless of who wins power in the future. This is surely good for the country and allows concentration upon the more fundamental issues facing our country.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Why on earth did you bring up Trump and the Russians? This is far more obvious than that. These are the projects of Palmer's Waratah Coal which were hinging on the result.

http://www.waratahcoal.com/alpha-north-coal-project/

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-26/clive-palmer-seeks-approval-for-monster-mine-near-adani/9698680

Chuck in a large coal powered power station too near the site.

http://www.waratahcoal.com/clive-palmers-waratah-coal-announces-new-coal-fired-power-station-for-queensland/

For you to be flippant about there being any motive for Clive to spend $80 million on getting the Libs in either shows deep ignorance or just spreading bulldust around with gay abandon.

Part of the reason our company tax regime is on the high side is the fact that so many companies pay little or zero tax. This doesn't happen to anywhere near the same extent in other countries.

Dear Bazz,

«Yuyutsu, the reason that the detainees were not sent to NZ was because
NZ would not remove the right to come to Australia by right.
That path has long been a way around Australian immigration rules.»

Come on, after what Australia did to them, who among them would ever want to come to Australia? Australia is the entity that captured them at sea and locked them up for so many years, the object of their trauma and nightmares - surely they cannot even bear to hear the name "Australia" without screaming and going psychotic.

Our "representatives" have rendered us pirates. How could anyone even contemplate this atrocity of snatching away people off their boats on the high seas then locking them up? Not even for a ransom, just indefinitely, just cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

Had the captives been adequately compensated financially for this injustice and torture, many millions of dollars each, then Australia would be begging them to come here and invest, gladly offering them business immigration visas... but then of course they would never accept such offers, they would only spit on these visas and what they represent, they could invest in New-Zealand instead or anywhere else really.

Had there been a will, then surely there would also be a way around the legal formalities you mentioned - I can think of not just one but 100's of creative ways to get them to New-Zealand (but not to Australia), but no, there is no will here, only ill-will!

While a relief on the economic front and in regard to religious freedoms (Christian freedoms, rather), it is so sad that the coalition got an absolute majority - otherwise they would have needed to negotiate, curb down their cruelty and compromise with independent members of parliament such as http://andrewwilkie.org/project/asylum-seekers-2

One other aspect of CGT that was jettisoned along with indexation of the cost base with the introduction of the 50% concession, was dividing the CG by five to be added to other income for determining the marginal tax rate to apply in the financial year the asset is realized. This should be reintroduced with the reversion to indexation I propose as an option.

The other aspect of the old system is while capital gains could be indexed, losses carried forward could not be indexed to gross them up.

In the light of the above, perhaps the 50% concession looks fairer than it appears on the surface. It also leads to more churn of assets rather than their retention to avoid realization and taxation, which must be good for capital flow efficiency.

Anyway, I'll leave it to the parties sort it out with the hope they'll come to agreement based in fact and efficacy, not dogma and prejudice. Maybe I'm being too hopeful.

Let's be honest Labor has work to do, it always has had
Too Liberalism has similar problems, eased by the fact it now, has, a leader who like or loathe him, wll be hard to remove
Labor will hold meetings, crowds will turn up to tell us why they think we lost
Notice I left me out?
See one of Labors troubles is its upwardly mobile inner city white collar mob
They are the voice of the party not the branches
Another Bob Hawk will arrive,he might be named Anthony Albanese, if the machinery lets him win this time
It is true, defeat sometimes leads to the renewal needed
We must stop pandering to the green left, but never stop being a true environmental party
We should have said we would not stop Adani, too improve not stop live sheep trade, and made the same stop the boats announcements scomo did

Belly, if you have a new Bob Hawk, in Labor, they sure as hell have not put his/her head up above the parapet yet. Labor is of course not alone in that. Morrison is no new Howard or Menzies, & it will be even harder for such a person to rise there, with Morrisons win of "the unwinnable" becoming legend.

What you need most is someone strong enough to get rid of a host of lousy policies, rather than dream up new ones.

We see an entirely new party rising to the top of voting intentions in the UK, they have someone not the product of either party running the US, & we probably need such a change here. The old parties are too set in their ways of thinking to move far enough or quickly enough to grab opportunities, or get out of the ruts they have dug. I'm nor sure we have the guts to make such a move, only time will tell.

There was far too much crowing by Labor supporters sure Shorten was headed for the lodge before the event, which I'm sure turned some off, & while you have spin doctors like SR pushing your case, I'm sure many more are turned right off. A heavily condescending attitude is the first thing we notice about many lefties, which simply confirms they are fools, not worth listening to. That you need to fix, right after you fix policies.

Dear Hassie,

You're right of course. Both major parties
need to take a look at their future plans
and learn from this recent election.

I am hoping that perhaps they will, under
new leaderships, work out how they can work
together for the good of the country - and
not just keep on opposing each other.

Voters are really sick of political point
scoring.

Unlike Foxy I can find no huge depository of understanding in Hasbeen
ALBO it seems will be our leader, within three months his polling will be 5 to 10 points better the Bills was
And Hasbeen knows, or should one day the tide will turn
That may take ten years, [not in my view] but it will happen
I see no need for Morison to change anything, he ran an outstanding race, and holds his party in his hands

Yep the bird has ducked Belly, as she expects the same loss next election, leaving the poor dumb Albo to take the next fall.

How many losses do you think he'll be allowed Belly, 2 like Shorten, or will he only get one?

http://tvtonight.com.au/2019/05/your-money-channel-to-cease-broadcasting.html
Worth highlighting a claim made here, or in another thread by Henry L was not close to true, this show was not forced off the air by leftist activists

Hasbeen we are opposed to each others view, one of us is totally wrong, never mind you did your best
Albo did not walk into the job, many wanted it, some future leaders too
Factions, once the wrecking ball,came together and saw off challenges, they know Albo is the one
He has others on his side, working for him, climate deniers in your team,
The few remaining right of reality types
And DONALD TRUMP see as that man sinks lower in to his madness the rampart right, worldwide, is going to decline
Yes adopt some of that rights policies the more sane center will be revived
ONE ELECTION,that is Albos target, his mission,
WARNING, the next election almost certainly will be a full one of both houses, it could come early next year
We are ignoring again, the chook pen senate is a refuge for the not quite brilliant, we [not me] gave it the power to stall government, we should be shamed by that

Dear Hasbeen,

How's it going old cock?

Noticed yet another gem of self projection from you;

"A heavily condescending attitude is the first thing we notice about many lefties, which simply confirms they are fools, not worth listening to."

You really don't have a mirror at home do you.

OK not nice, but true still, the very right here are gloating, and I would be too
But they won zilch! the very right ANNING, CLIVE, lost
One nation did too, by electing again the maddest person in parliament
Old tin hat Robbo
So gloat away but know as a result of this defeat Labor takes its head out of the sand this week
And moves even more toward the center

DONALD TRUMP see as that man sinks lower in to his madness the rampart right
Belly,
What you need to come to grips with is the fact that Trump is NOT following the traditional lines of insipid & incompetent political protocol. Toeing the political lines is what has caused the World so much grief. This bloke told them to go away so he can get on with it. He's draining the swamp & clearing the mud & that's why the leeches get upset as they have run out of hiding places.
He's only unpopular with the likes of you, those who care about their Nation support him !

indy in all truth the man has conned you, you must have met con men
He is also a bit mad, in love with himself and has the biggest ego you will ever see
America will, one day, reject him, Republicans would now, but do not want to have to say they got it wrong
Trump, in a way, won the election for scomo
Sounds like a lie and may well be, but in QLD it is said on being told you have to own shares to get franking credits some are saying fake news!
Thinking it was a promise during the election

Belly,

Trump won the election for Scomo? Seriously?

The only similarity is the pollsters inability to measure the backlash against state mandated larceny by the labor party.

Queensland, the answer to the question asked is Queensland ALBO went there today'
Some, yes true, pensioners eat tinned dog food, just to eat
Other get franking credits

indy in all truth the man has conned you,
Belly,
No he hasn't, he had the sense to put a huge dent into the side of Leftism & rightly so.
Personally, I think the man's a spoilt brat who went out to do what he wanted to do, not what popular protocol dictates. There'll more Tumps before long, Socialism has all but killed off common sense & people are getting tired of the costs of the bull$hit !

Belly, you have elected Albo leader.

If you reckon that is pulling your head out of the sand, it is obvious you only did it to shove it where the sun never shines.

Belly you are continually telling others they are dumb/stupid/have no knowledge, then this. Talk about stupidity personified, electing yesterdays man, who probably had a huge hand in those policies that buried your heads in that sand.

Belly,

"...pensioners eat tinned dog food, just to eat"

Tinned dog food is generally too expensive for pensioners, there is lots of tinned food for humans that is less expensive though probably not as nutritious,

is mise you may be right but my claim is true
Not for home owning pensioners or those living with family
Not those in homes, but some do struggle
Yes canned pet food, all pet food,is overpriced
But what meat is cheaper than dog food
Recommend my link in my post in the other Labor thread, it touches on very real reality check for my mob
IF we do not stop navel gazing long enough to know it was OUR voters who put us back in opposition we die

Belly,

You are trying to fight a battle that has already been lost. The reality is that while the ALP might have been aiming their tax at wealthy retirees it also hit 100 000s of less wealthy retirees who stood to loose a few $1000s of dollars each year and for whom this amount of money made a significant difference. Add to that all the people in their late 40s and 50s planning their retirements and you get a huge bunch of pissed off people who are not afraid to influence their children or grand children. For the relatively small tax take, there was a huge political price to pay and as Chris Bowen said, "if you don't like it don't vote for us" and they didn't.

That combined with pissing off millions of home owners who saw their major investment collapsing in value and we had Labor shooting itself in both feet.

SM finding it hard to believe but am told it is true
Personal, on facebook, been attacked by a redneck paying for his only home
He told me he thinks negative gearing would see him chucked out of his home
It is said, thousands of pensioners, are lining up at Social Security, for their franking credits
Sound purely a lie doesn't it
But then again one nation/Clive Palmer and the host of redneck parties get votes
That seems to say it can be true

Turnbull gone, Banks gone, Bishop gone, Pyne gone. Maybe with all these regressive gw alarmist gone their is hope for the Liberal party. ScoMo could give Abbott the post Shorten had promised Bishop. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Progressive was not a dirty word once, and it will not be again at some future time
The above list, named progressives, is far closer to true Liberalism that its author ever was
Labor, in hindsight, beat itself, it was unexpected but not a flogging, a humbling defeat yes
Morrison has his work cut out, for a short time his enemy is not Labor
It is the economy and the promise he made, including tax cuts that now maybe badly timed
In any case Labor should pass them, he has the mandate
Labors followers, will be confronted, [some of them] some still call for Adani to be stopped, [that was one of the ropes that hung Labour's election hopes
Sell the coal while we can, one day we will not have a market for it
And if we do not sell it others will and that says zero out comes for carbon reductions

Belly,

"Progressivism" was coined in the 1890s by liberals and social activists and was agressively pursued in Europe post WW2, and was associated with high taxation/redistribution, and state owned and run industries.

This of course came to a crashing halt in the 70s and 80s as state owned industries slid into bankruptcy and high earning individuals fled tax rates of up to 90%

As a result "progressivism" is now associated with trying to wind the clock back to failed economic model, mixed in with political correctness /censorship and identity politics

SM aware and extremely thankful they existed, those times started building a better more caring world
And we needed it back then
As we will again as profit and growth blinds us to the fact both lead to very real trouble
Overpopulation, overexploitation of resources and all that brings
Just imagine aq Trump world, one free to hate whole races and faiths
One that puts rich countries trade interests before fairness
A horror world that seems to invite war as a result of closed trade

Belly,

While I can understand some nostalgia for the old days, they cannot be relived. Globalisation and international competition will shred any organisation that is not lean and mean.

Capitalism has meant that there is money to indulge the environmentalists and to improve and make industry more efficient and less wasteful.

I do however miss the short skirts of the 60s

Belly, "Progressives" is a misnomer. They are really regressives who
would like to go back to any socialist style of government.
I think the modern world, ie post 19th century, will be very wary of
any party that advocates full on socialism.
I thought that the Labour party had learnt that lesson, but I think
the left needs to look at the loss of support in most countries and
the collapse of countries like Venezuela. Most other countries
that were socialist did not collapse they just ended up going nowhere.
The main exception of course is China but it has become a sort of
Raw capitalist run by a dictatorship that owns the country that rents
industrial space to favourites.

Bazz/Shadow Minister not much doubt I am one of those progressives /regressives you speak of
But Socialist? unlikely
See I [like you] lived in the time of Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia,And see enough to know China is planning war
Trump brought about such terms used as insult
But he is the worst enemy of free trade this world has ever seen
Too he is the best mate China, North Korea, and Russia could have
His very existence weakens forever the western alliance

Belly you do fall for all the cliches don't you.

Free trade is an elitist trap that much of the free world has fallen for. If anyone is the enemy of the masses, it is the free trade merchants, & the useful idiots who have fallen for it.

Have you ever given a single thought to the ultimate result of free trade? Yes we are half way there, It means giving up industrial production in countries like Australia, & importing everything, as we now do.

Not as disastrous for us, provided we sit on the likes of Paul, & keep our mining going full bore, but without mining we become the poor beggar state of the South Pacific.

We no longer make anything, all the Ship, railway rolling stock, mining equipment, even cars & agricultural equipment manufacture all gone along with electrical appliances, TVs & even radios. Hell I even buy half my hobby stuff direct from Hong Kong, & the rest is imported from China by local distributors. Cut us off from Asia, & in 2 weeks, we run out of transport fuel, a month & we have rioting in the streets.

No one needs to invade us to defeat us, just stop our imports for a month & we are crippled into surrender.

Close our mining, & with only agricultural exports, we wouldn't have enough foreign exchange to buy our fuels. This once proud self sufficient nation is becoming nothing but a consumer of Asian goods

Free trade is the weapon of the ultra rich you hate so much, to subjugate us all, & you are helping them. How naïve can you get? I can't think of anything more stupid than hating the one member of the ultra rich who just might, [& only might], be on your side.

Hasbeen do you understand why we are branded the lucky country?
IF China ever stops buying our minarals you will soon remember
World trade allows us the thrive, without is who pays our bills
Please consider putting more thought into your views

Belly you are the one who needs to think rather than parrot the elites slogans.

Where the hell do you think all our manufacturing jobs have gone? To Asia of course. With no industrial capacity left we are sitting ducks for any aggressor to strangle our supply lines & leave us starving. A fat lot of good our agricultural production would do us, with it out in the bush, & no transport to get it to the population.

Time to think a lot more deeply old mate.

Hasbeen glass houses, naming me as parroting, not sure why a post was not shown here try again
Your self confidence is badly misplaced