We see both sides upset with the other each claiming the other is biased
But can we ignore side is often just that, the thin edge of politics
It seems easy to support the view the very real power is held, on both sides, by a center
That LNP and Labor, while shedding first preference votes, a truth they seem unable to handle, they have on both sides, tried to hold the center
And that without that center no party can win government

Sir Robert Menzies owned the center, his biggest fan John Howard did too
Bob Hawke and Kevin Rudd too took the center with them to win elections
In my view only two parties can take the center with them Liberals [not their mate the Nationals]
And Labor
In about equal numbers in both parties the center includes swinging voters
This election, maybe the next two, will see some centerists wandering away to small parties
But in the end only the center can deliver government, to any side
Some debate could be made for both sides, that the edges, left and right, are a bigger problem for their own side than the other
Nationals? protected by agreements with Liberals it holds coastal seats, less firmly than in the past
But faces a truth, they have drifted from their place of birth and will suffer in this election

Dear Belly,

Michelle Grattan points out in her article for
"The Conversation," that a key point about this
upcoming election in May - is that whichever
side wins they're going to inherit a bitter,
sceptical, exhausted electorate.

Grattan tells us that Australians are over their
politicians. They're over all the in-fighting,
the strident bad behaviour, the lying, the
back-stabbing, the political ambitions, the
relentless campaigning, the fear-mongering,
the toppling of multiple PMs in a remarkably
short-time, the judgements by opinion polls, the
media shrillness. They have all taken their toll on
the tolerance of the average voter.

This election will as Grattan rightly says, be fought
in this climate of unprecedented public distrust of
politics and cynicism about its practitioners.

She also tells us that if voter disillusionment
and distrust has become so heavily ingrained in the
electorate's psyche it is going to be hard to either
prescribe or expect a cure.

Sorry to be so negative - but things are not looking
good at present.

'Sir Robert Menzies owned the center, his biggest fan John Howard did too'

Belly forgets that some of were around when daily he lambasted Howard for his 'right wing' policies on a very regular basis

Howard, without workchoices could still be PM
Workchoices was right wing
Foxy yes true, but for some not understanding is reason for disliking politicians
Labor, no less than Liberal, has lost contact with its voters, and expected them to be better informed than they are
However, it will win the election, because they offer the center the best of two sets of policy
Labor will AGAIN, win office just as a global financial crisis hits the lot of us
And knows it, for the sake of its future, must handle the economy

No Belly, Labor has not lost contact with its voters, it has simply moved on from people like you.

Today it is the party of big unions, [not the working members of those unions], & big industry. This is where their money comes from, & where their interest goes. Add their new constituency of academia the bureaucracy & the less radical greenies & you have their interest.

Fossils like you, [& me], are not on their radar at all, apart from keeping you on side as long as possible, for whatever they can get out of you. You know as well as I do that this is true, but you can't bear to admit it to yourself.

You & I, & so many others are in the same boat. Neither major has a single thing to offer either of us, but it is taking some a lot longer to awake to this fact, meanwhile we are being taken for fools.

Dear Belly,

I watched Bill Shorten's reply to the Libs budget
speech. He was very confident as was the team
sitting behind him. Katherine Murphy from The
Guardian Australia pointed out that Labor is
selling a team to voters, not a presidential
leader. It is also framing a positive campaign
in the process projecting itself as the incumbents
daring the government to go negative.

Shorten's speech directly appeals to the Labor
base, to women and young people. Many connection
points from tax relief to workers who have not
got any wage rises, the return of lost penalty rates,
to the cancer package.

The cancer pledge in particular connects with so
many people and speaks to their lived experience.
It will make disillusioned voters sit up and take
notice.

Foxy yes and I know it is a good team, truly Bill has an ego, all good leaders do, he will be trusted in government
And liked, hard not to like the real Bill
However he knows he and my party are on trial, dare not stuff up
We honest thinkers know the GFC hurt Labor, we unfairly get the blame for it
Yet rarely see that this country's debt has doubled post our last time in government
Center, this mornings poll, shows, clearly, 53/47 this government has been held to account, *because it abandoned the center* ran away from it in fact
And that is the gift internal warfare in the right controlled government, seemingly unable to see or hear its own base, has given Labor, another chance at governing

Today I saw a politician undermine his own party and its relationship with the center
Our treasurer bad mouthed the Labor policy on EVs
Yet he drives one
More importantly he ignored the fact most who have them are middle and upper income
That makes them likely to be his voters

Dear Belly,

If they continue with their negativity in
their campaigning - they will lose the
voters even further. It's to their own
detriment to continue with these outmoded
tactics of yesterday.

The 'centre'.
I reckon your full of it on this one Belly.
You couldn't even spell it the right way.
Can't you remember what country were in mate?

What do you purport to know about 'the centre' if you can't even spell it right and don't know what country we're in?

Anyway, I'd like to make my counter-argument by questioning whether or not a 'centre' actually even exists;

Stating that a 'centre' actually exists is a bit of a fallacy.
- You're assuming that there is some common middle-ground that all participants recognise.

* But there's not.

Muslims and Christians aren't going to support gays.
- No middle ground -
Nationalists aren't going to support Globalism
- No middle ground -
Muslims won't support anything other than Islam
- No middle ground -
Feminists won't support Anti-Abortionists
- No middle ground -

And on and on and on it goes...
You're living in a fantasy land if you think a 'centre' actually exists.

We don't believe in democracy per se.

Muslims believe what they believe.
Christians believe what they believe.
Nationalists, Globalists, Muslims, Feminists and Anti-Abortionists.
None of these groups are on the same page;
They believe what they believe first over and above the political process.

What the bigger picture of this situation?
All sides are playing each other off and no-one gets what they want.

You're thinking it's the 'centre' that's important.
It's not, it's the extreme opinions on both sides which polarise the issues and shape the arguments and progress going forward.

That's what brought us being sold out to UN agendas instead of developing our our workable policies.

It was never about the 'centre' or 'our interests'.
It was all about hijacking our system and benefiting from the chaos for 'some other globalist interests'.

speaking as a Christian Armchair you are largely right. You left out the marxist though. America democratically elected a President and all we have had is dummy spits, fake news, fake Russian collusion fantasies, fake race crimes, fake rape allegations, fake science and true hatred from the lying liberal media.

The only truely harmonious nations were those that adopted Judea Christian ethics. Now that has been trashed by god haters we see the West completely divided and collaping very quickly. Oh but we can now butcher our children up to birth and beyond. Such liberty and freedom for the oppressed feminsist!

AC,

Sweeping generalisations and rigid stereotyping does
not enhance your arguments. You see the world in very
rigid and stereotyped terms. Not every person thinks the
same, not everyone conforms to your views. You haven't
allowed for individual differences in people.

Some people can be very conservative on some subjects
and very liberal on others. Moderate thinkers also exist
in all persuasions. There is a center - whether it suits
your political agenda or not. It does exist.

You can't generalise on behalf of everybody.
Who elected you as the authority around here.

Armchair critic first I left school, unable to even read properly
Yes my spelling is no good, my spell check is having a nervous breakdown trying to work me out
Is that a measure of my worth? my understanding?
While I live I grow/learn my rule to live by
I have, after much hard work, gained top marks in many fields, including my hobby ham radio
You seem not to want to believe there is a center, because conservatives have rushed away from it
And are about to be thrown out of office because of it
Say what you like about me, save some bile for after the federal election, you will know then truth hurts.

Hey Foxy,
"You can't generalise on behalf of everybody."

Yes I can.
I can say or do whatever I want so long as it's an extension of my true beliefs;
And if the argue has merit, I won't be silenced and I don't care what anyone thinks.

- I'd think you regular forum posters would learn by now -
With me, the arguments must be won on merit.
I don't care what form of literary expression you use to articulate your arguments;

My new argument is that your statement is ridiculous and borderline delusional.

"Sweeping generalisations and rigid stereotyping does
not enhance your arguments. You see the world in very
rigid and stereotyped terms."

Actually they do, and it's you being unrealistic..
It's certainly valid to make generalisations when dealing with the factual realities of different groups.
In fact it would be ignorant and foolish not to.

I think you live in this fantasy world where you think people will set their own beliefs aside for the democratic process.

- Different groups are tribal in their own beliefs and you're trying to ignore these facts -

Do you think Muslims and Christians will rip out the pages of their sacred texts (regarding homosexuality) and say:
"Geez, obviously God was wrong on that one"?
- "He lead us down the garden path but lucky we're smarter and we know better now thanks to the democratic process";
"You can take off your burka's now everyone, thanks to democracy we all now know its stupid and repressive."

Do you people they will stop believing what they believe because you decided we're all going to live 'happy' under the one roof?

"You can't generalise on behalf of everybody."
Do you alternatively believe my statements above to be realistic 'generally' instead?

Do religions support homosexuality?
There's no bloody middle ground.
There's no compromise to be had.
They have completely opposing views on a topic.
To not recognise this is idiocy.

Hey Belly,

I only said it to emphasise my argument better rather than any need to actually correct your spelling;
- I honestly don't care how you spell it, I knew what you meant -

It's a word for which the spelling in the UK English language differs from the spelling in the US English language.

Sometimes I even write it wrong myself as I have my computer language set to US and sometimes their spelling almost becomes acceptable or accidentally habitual.

"You seem not to want to believe there is a center, because conservatives have rushed away from it".

I tend to often look at the pro's and con's, the bigger picture, and the flaws of everything, don't ask me why.
If I can't make a good decision right away I'll let it bounce around my head for a while.
And I'm just making an opposing counter-argument here to level things out.
I know what's meant 'by the centre'; I thought I could argue the validity of its actual existence on a technical basis.

AC you do know, you do know in taking me to task for my spelling YOU MISSPELLED several words
Huge grin
Not going to push my wheel barrow much more but once found [as a workplace trainer] those with the highest level of education, sometimes needed the most help
Your understanding of politics is shallow, if you can not see the center, if you can not see how Howard both owned it, and abandoned it, with workchoices
And that right now, the LNP continue to think they can abandon the very center about to remove them.

Morning Belly,
Drats you got me, I do tend to make a few spelling mistakes here and there.
And yes I get what you mean in regards to Howard owning the centre then abondoning it regards to workchoices.

But say for example you have one group of people who and want socialism, and do whatever possible to undermine democracy to force socialism upon us, such as in 'Cloward and Piven' then you have a situation where their beliefs are not in line with those who believe in democracy.

Their beliefs are hostile to democracy.
They aren't trying to find the middle ground; there is no middle ground for them, only YOU the useful idiot voter (no offense) thinks there is.
In this scenario they're trying to collapse the existing system, but you think they're trying to find the middle ground.

They aren't working from the ideology of the 'centre'.
They are advancing their agenda slowly and incrementally by pushing the 'extremes'.

There is no centre, when middle ground or realistic compromises fail to exist.
- That's my argument -

Take it, read it and learn it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

This was a strategy to collapse the existing system and introduce a Universal Basic Income.

And this is what some people think democracy is;
- A bus they ride to their 'socialist' destination and then they get off.

Our democracy is not foolproofed against those who would weaponise it for ulterior motives.

Our system is flawed and has the seeds of it's own destruction built in.

Alright there's one final point I want to make.

If finding the so-called centre is the best policy, then why don't we have an 'Australian Centrist Policy Institute'?

Why don't we just look at all the issues in depth and figure out the best policy or path for each topic?

Why don't we do that? Answer - Because it won't work.

Policy makers don't really want to find the centre because they're always proposing their own agenda's which seek to continually shift the goal posts.

- Only at voting time -

Center exists only because those who make it up will not except things that are far from center views
In this election those things include conservatives climate change policies
Cuts then election time, rebuilding of funding for the NDIS and health
Anti clean energy, a host of other failed conservative wants

AC you by not even seeing we have a center are just the very best thing the ALP could ask for
Conservative voters who by wasted right votes will help install Labor

I need to say this
A post, in another thread, has bought the roof down on me
See I remain me, not capable of group think, of standing in line, watching my party and both sides, see empty seats as we drive would be members and voters away from our branches
We, yes my much loved mob too, want regimented thought, not free thinkers
We and conservatives march in the wrong direction now and again, because we are told
not to think for ourselves
My view the NSW Labor Leader lost an election, and ten percent of his own margin, has been harvested, by my own side, WARNING something much deeper is going on here, every one of us, from the so very wrong very right to the very lost very left must never ever stop believing freedom of thought and speech is worth any fight with any one

Hey Belly,
My voting strategy doesn't just focus on who I want to win.
I vote with who I want to lose in mind as well.

You never get what you want anyway so I vote for what I DON'T WANT just as much as I vote for what I do want.

- Which essentially means putting Labor and the Greens last, before I even begin...

Good news AC! my vote cancels your vote
And that uniformed tripe about no center is either a desperate attempt at ignoring the truth of a failure to understand politics
May I?you know it is my view only the ALP is fit to govern
But you, by your voting style, support my view
AC ONE NATION PALMER and the rest only take votes from LNP much more center than any of them
There is a center it lives in both parties, sometimes holding the same views and that part outside the center in both parties can be both positive and negative for the party they live in

Dear Critic,

«Do you people they will stop believing what they believe because you decided we're all going to live 'happy' under the one roof?»

«Do religions support homosexuality?
There's no bloody middle ground.
There's no compromise to be had.»

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/kumbh-mela-2019-transgenders-take-holy-dip-at-kumbh-mela-for-the-first-time-1978325

http://www.smh.com.au/national/frydenberg-looks-ridiculous-as-government-gets-into-a-pickle-20190410-p51cpv.html
From one of their own
Look read, see my thought the LNP has left its middle ground behind
Morning after the election people with far more skill than me will hit the keyboards and say just how far they drifted
And just how useless the drift to the right was

Yes Belly, under Turnbull they left any middle ground way behind in their rush to the left.

We need someone with more guts than the present bloke to drag them back to where they can earn my vote.

Actually I doubt democracy can survive the welfare state. Too many today vote with their hip pocket in mind, & can be bought for a few dollars in special interest welfare. Far too few consider what the county needs, & will vote for Shorten if he offers them a handout. As Hanrahan said we'll all be ruined, & in the near future.

Hasbeen my thanks
Your post if nothing else admits there indeed is a center
Too it reminds me at least the right of reality I so often mention remains the death sentence it is, for this government
See the center of your party is not the very right
Good luck with my detractors in the ALP but the center of mine is not the left
Sometimes [both parties] they combine very well and govern well
But sometimes, now for your mob, they stop that team from winning government, or in your case keeping it
Turnbull failed
He never had the guts to be his own real self
Scomo, every bit as far right as Dutton, has managed quite well, at hiding that truth, he is right of reality to the bone

The centrists don't know whether they are Arthur or Martha. They want a bob each way, not committed to anything. They don't stand for anything. The best example today is the Coalition government under Morrison, who doesn't have a belief or value to his name. In contrast, Labor knows what it is: extremely socialist, big spenders, tax the rich. Their values stink; but at least they have values, and they look like wiping the floor with the value-free, stand-for-nothing Coalition.

Oh Turnbull was his real self Belly, a sneaky lying lefty, prepared to say anything to buy a few votes, then follow his chosen lefty path as sneakily as possible.

He was the equal of Shorten in that regard, just kept a little less left because he knew his party would not stand too much stupidity.

Pity the Labor lot don't gave anyone sensible like Hawke & Keating today, able to bring useful policy forward into legislation.

Hasbeen mate I see you as part of the problem confronting the LNP
Well aware Shorten is not popular, not however why
Maybe the mud stuck, that false charge about funding by a firm
See you are not supposed to hear this, but firms, big and small, hunted the AWU
They wanted an AWU agreement, not ever a CFMEU one
They, from family micro to huge internationals, huntered me too
No crime was committed,in those days EMPLOYERS saw in Bill a future PRIME MINISTER not a standover man, they wanted to be part of that
Hasbeen if only, if you could only see, that center exists, it will never ever say yes to a purely left or purely right governing party
Your party, after it loss, will fight to again be that big tent party it must be to govern
Just as mine has

AWU Australia's Weakest Union, the CFMEU and another leftist mob now part of them bought that name up
Because, true, bosses weary of midnight black balaclava wearing THUGS invading even homes made the AWU great
Not sure what the relationship is like now, but the delegates from the thugs and mugs union mostly became mine, see workers are not radicals

Hey Belly,

"Good news AC! my vote cancels your vote".

Well we make a pretty pointless pair then.
One step forward, and one step back, doing the democracy shuffle.
(That's me taking the step forward and you dragging us back btw)

"And that uniformed tripe about no center is either a desperate attempt at ignoring the truth of a failure to understand politics".

Truth, ethics and arguments that hold merit mate:

It doesn't matter if you jump up and down and throw stuff all around the room;
Or if you put you fingers in your ears and loudly say "Lalalalala not listening..."
- None of that will change the truth -

And the truth is; there is no centre where no middle ground or compromise exists.

I don't care if you beat your fists down on your table saying "Damn that AC he can't be right!"

Sorry mate, but the truth is the truth.

Here's another aspect.

- Bipartisan issues. -

What if Labor supports US wars and LNP supports US wars?
How do the people vote for NOT getting involved in wars?
Answer = They can't, they have no-one to represent them except to go out into the streets and protest.

There's no middle ground. No compromise. No democracy.

"May I? you know it is my view only the ALP is fit to govern"
Of course you can say whatever you like;
It's your right to.

I may not support what you say but I'll always support your right to say it.
You can make fun of me or humiliate me too if I slip up and deserve to be told off, or even if it just helps you get your point across.
I don't care what you say or how you say it, but your argument should hold merit or you risk being called out on it.

Just because a centre faction exists in the parties doesn't mean it exists for all issues in the real world.

- Checkmate -

AC right now a truth I can not hide from, has me by the throat
See I do not mindlessly support my party
I have opinions, and while understanding it would help my image if you never heard them truth matters
My sugar bag joke, the one about the joke who lead NSW Labor to defeat, it sees me blacklisted
Yet it is a view shared, by hundreds of yes, thousands of my fellow voters in this state
We have an illness, it maybe fatal, it is named solidarity
IT DEMANDS *group speak, group do as you are told think*
Never find me under that filthy rug
Like the LNP we have our very own *REFUGEE PROBLEM * see both sides can not fill meetings, people are refugees from them
IF new members come, they never return
We bore them we shout this is how we do it,and we are not changing!
So my friend insult? if you wish,but know my thoughts are not set in stone
Every party in this country should start every meeting with these words
*tell me/us what you really think, not what you think we/I want to hear*

A postscript, it is my view I think much like those we need to win elections that in rejecting me the very people we must tell our story to are too rejected

Two days in to the campaign and in my view see proof there is a center
We, if we look, see there are biases in play too
Polls, years of them, say it is already over
But not so, already at least four candidates have withdrawn or been dumped
A single sentence can do that, one wrong word
It may well be close, do not believe any side has it in the bag
But as much as you may dislike it, or me, if you understand politics, know that the center, in both parties, and those yet to make up their mind
Can turn one way or the other and must be considered always