Dear Belly
I wrote down a 250 word paragraph practically agreeing to everything that you have said so far pressed control by mistake and lost the lot. So it was never meant to be. It basically said that it appears as though you do believe in a mixed economy but please do not overlook PPP where profit is still the carrot to the detriment of a service that serves the people. It is obvious that the Howard Government has not got the Political Will to make Government Services work for the Benefit of the people. He is not only concentrating on spending money to prolong the war in Iraq in that he is now at war with his very own people by waging a war on all workers with that dreaded word Work Choice.

Bronco Lane till death I am union, and so far from conservative you would not believe it.
But with 22% of workers in unions, and more true poor each day I want my movement Labor/Labour to explore new better ways.
I do not think we yet have a better way than a mixed economy.
But self interest is leaving far too many on the scrap heap, some of that self interest is from slugs grazing on Social welfare they do not truly need.
You and I know some is from fat already well of who think in terms of self interest not the country's interest.
The thread nears the end of the page so debate is limited but if we take one issue at a time we can find interesting answers.
Take public owned enterprise, I have seen generations of one family transfer the leadership roll just because the next level of management did not want to change anything.
Generation after generation of poorly skilled money wasters in a government department why?
One NSW department has taken the best grader operator you could ever find and as a reward turned the most valuable asset they had into the worst foreman!
And replaced him with the worst grader operator you could see in 5 lifetimes.
Contracting out management rolls would blend into a productive concern yes mixed economy not mixed up.

Dear Belly and All
We all seem to be pontificating to the converted here.
The Conservative Candidate from Charlton was probably so outnumbered or didn't understand the arguments for Socialism. I have no doubt that you are an unselfish committed Trade Unionists Belly. But careful with what you are saying you are quoting the Conservative Media by looking over your shoulder at your neighbour sciving on the dole. These spongers are only a minority. If they are liberty takers what about Messrs Murdoch and Packer how much tax do they pay from a percentage of their profits ? Back to Socialism Kevin Rudd is electable as he is a Howard clone. Approving the raping and cutting down of Tasmanian old growth forests. Expanding Uranium Mining, The funding of Private Schools to the detriment of Government Schools. Yet Mark Latham appeared pure Socialist by Not approving cutting down of old growth forests with Bob Brown, Reduce public funding to private schools to return it to where it belonged Government Schools and no expansion of Uranium Mining what was wrong with that but he wasn't electable.

Bronco Lane I can not in good faith be careful of what I say.
Nor can I ever say what I do not believe, I do not believe in a Socialism that rewards theft.
While it may hurt your opinion of me sit down money is wrong.
I can not forget those who are work shy, who feed on the public purse are no less my enemy's than the million Aires who pay next to zero tax.
If every true Socialist in this country, every single one of them, voted only for such a party, I doubt they could win one senate seat.
Mark me firmly as a realist, I have true concerns at the weakened stance of some in the ALP on such as work choices.
But while they may forget, and a Medea prepared to lie says unions will get too much I have an understanding that government must govern for all or not be elected.
I constantly refer to free loaders who get the benefit of unions actions while not paying dues, in what way can you justify parasites who free load on Social Security?
A living pension for those in true need could come from savings.
The fact we debate among our selfs is proof most do not care about others.

Dear Belly and All Socialists as the reactionaries or traitors to the working class have conveniently slid away. In reply to your final conclusion:-Shouting in High Case-Bronco Lane I can not in good faith be careful of what I say. PARASITES OFF THE STATE THEY ARE A MINORITY IT IS THOSE THAT EARN OBSCENE SALARIES ARE THE PARASITES LIVING OFF THE WORKERS.
Nor can I ever say what I do not believe, I do not believe in a Socialism that rewards theft. IF THERE WAS A SYSTEM THAT HAD NO MEANS TESTING THEN YOUR OPINION WOULD HAVE NO MEANING
While it may hurt your opinion of me sit down money is wrong.
I can not forget those who are work shy, who feed on the public purse are no less my enemy's than the million Aires who pay next to zero tax.
If every true Socialist in this country, every single one of them, voted only for such a party, I doubt they could win one senate seat.
Mark me firmly as a realist, I have true concerns at the weakened stance of some in the ALP on such as work choices. YES DO THEY REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT AUSTRALIAN WORKPLACE AGREEMENTS IS THE METHOD THAT DIVIDES ALL WORKERS FROM EACH OTHER THE AGREEMENTS ARE SECRET AND THE BROWN NOSE MAY REAP THE HIGHER OFFERINGS.
But while they may forget, and a Medea prepared to lie says unions will get too much I have an understanding that government must govern for all or not be elected.
.

CONTINUED I constantly refer to free loaders who get the benefit of unions actions while not paying dues, in what way can you justify parasites who free load on Social Security? TOO TRUE HOW CAN THEY LIVE WITH THEMSELVES THEY WOULD NEVER MAKE SACRIFICES AND STAND UP TO AN UNREASONABLE EMPLOYER BUT THEY TAKE WHAT THE MARTYR HAS WON FOR THEM ALL. LOST PAY THROUGH WORKING TO RULE AND STANDING OUTSIDE ON THE PICKET LINE WHILE THEY SHAMEFULLY CROSS THE PICKET LINE SCABS AND BLACKLEGS ARE TOO NICE A WORD FOR THEM.
A living pension for those in true need could come from savings.
The fact we debate among our selfs is proof most do not care about others. YES YOU ARE RIGHT BELLY THERE IS NOW A SILENCE BUT THEN THEY ALWAYS GO SILENT WHEN THEY ARE SHWN FOR WHAT THEY ARE. JOE HOCKEY NO LONGER LOOKS THE GOOD GUY HE NOW APPEARS THE BUFFOON THAT HE IS. HOWARD HAS CERTAINLY PUT HIM IN THE HOT SEAT. BUT THEN KEVIN ANDREWS HAS MESSED UP EVERYTHING HE HAS TOUCHED. SO DID PETER REITH AND WE NEVER EVER SAW HIM AGAIN WITH HIS GERMAN SHEPHERDS AND BALACLAVA AGENT PROVOCATUERS