So Belly

Is this what Kevin Rudd the Labor party and unions trying to achieve.

Seems like you are promoting it.

So will we be dictated to as well, by labor party policy.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton

Tapp you do need to think before you post!
And DEMOS this time we agree standing firmly in the way of a more caring world is personal greed.
Now I am not My poor Friend Tapp, speaking for the ALP, or promoting anything.
Those who understand anything, maybe not Tapp know we already have part Socialism.
My first post highlighted the heat the word brings, the miss understanding of what it is, and the miss use of the name and even its practice by some.
My new Socialism is an idea that needs expanding, it is accountable Socialism.
It is quite true that public owned enterprise is often sluggish and non responsive, why must it be so?
It is true some who can afford to stand on their own feet bludge on government handouts why do we allowed it?
If we just think about it those truly in need could be paid a true living income if waste is cut.
Tapp I am sure you are a good person, true! but how can you constantly charge me with thinking in away I clearly do not?
Mate no offense but after your election loss will you consider the need to impress voters not start needless wars with them?

Hi Belly mate...

Old Socialism, New Socialism.. new improved Socialism.. new improved socialism with 'ingredient X' etc.. just like 'Capitalism' in its variations... none of them 'work'....without the will to make them work.

Anything tending towards the 'Socialism' which entraps more and more people into the fabric of 'State'... will be repudiated by those with vision. As a Cuban farmer said on a doco last night "If the State employs you on a farm..'its just a job' so you don't care, but WOOOO when the state has a 'quota' and anything more than the quota is..YOURS aaah..now THAT makes a bigggg difference to motivation"

1/ All for the state ? FAILS (Low motivation, low productivity)
2/ All for the individual ? FAILS (High motivation, high productivity, mass exploitation.)

Politically, leaving the Almighty out of it all, the only workable and socially responsible position is a middle ground. Un-fortunately, even with such a policy, there will be many who simply follow after the self interest alone.

So, we need more than just policy. We need a 'reason' to want it to work. What 'reason' can move us to want things to work for 'others' as well as for us ? Philosophically, Humanism might be a goer.. I said.."might" because once subjected to close scrutiny, it fails the 'reasonableness' test. Why work for others at all in a finite world with no inherrent meaning or purpose ? (i.e. the 'No God' box is ticked)

Again.. I conclude that just like Ancient Israel where farmers were required NOT to harvest the last grain of wheat, rather were to leave sufficient for the scroungers... the poor..the widows...and the alien...so this is 'benevolent capitalism' but.. it also has soul... it is connected to the idea of a Just Creator.

THAT....is what we need... not a re-branded failed political idea.
cheers.

Almost one third of what we earn gets taxed and spent by the government. This is the highest rate of taxation in Australia's history. Australia is only capitalist in a nominal sense. In reality we are a mixture, as is any large well functioning economy. Labelling countries or policies as capitalist or socialist just oversimplifies a complex issue.

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1177399964

Let people find their own reason to work. We do not need to provide it for them.

Let us not think of Cuba in my name here.
Firmly and proudly let me say this once young ,once very left lefty is no longer anything other than an enemy of the very left.
It is my honestly held view they do more harm than good to those in need.
However I did not start this thread to rename anything, in fact I had hopes we could talk of a new better accountable Socialism.
Give it another name if you must but I find nothing wrong with helping those in need.
But yes ,even for me the waste that comes with true Socialism, the end of the need to produce better outcomes is not the answer.
BD we have room to move in this debate we already have part Socialism in this country.
We must never think better ways can not be found .

Tony Blair formed the New Labour it was as evil as the Bush and Howard Governments sending their unemployed youth to war admist depleted uranium. The true Socialism is International Socialism governed by the United Nations whereby they would feed the world and destroy every single killing weapon where all of our money is wasted. Food and aid not bombs greed or capitalism. This is what Islam sees as true evil that is why they desperately take their own and innocent lives. Peasants did this in Cuba to rid themselves of the American controlled Mafia. This is why Castro came to power because of the American corruption. Hitler, Stalin, Mugabe are and were tyrants parading under State Capitalism. Only Trotsky tried to implement Marx but was expelled later to be murdered by Stalin. To have accountability in the media we need the same policies as we are trying to campaign that show the ingredients on food packets and tins on the shelves. Every newspaper has to be named on who the Proprieter is so if we buy the Sunday Times it is to be named the Murdoch Sunday Times because it is his point of view. If we purchase the West Australian it is to be named the Packer West Australian as an example. Today a Conservative devotee has announced that he will now open up a Newspaper in Queensland that will attack Peter Beattie on every issue this is how far they are prepared to stoop within this class struggle.