Boaz
Trade Unions have been formed from the Christian Church, hence brothers and sisters and Father of the Chapel. The Labour Party was then formed from the Trade Unions which had to be as the Wigs and Tories were not doing enough for the underprivelidged, poor and needy and the working proletariat. Those who rebeled were shipped to Australia. Nothing has altered since the Tol Puddle Martyrs the class struggle continues with as always Religoun clouding the issues. True Democratic can only work if the tail is wagging the dog. Committees deciding and electing executives with periodocal elections. The Howard Government is extremely Centralist with no regard for Communities starving the States and the Welfare selling off Utilities so that the Federal Government can be Paternalistic to it's subjects. The infamous Baroness Thatcher did exactly the same a decade ago until the people found her out. Keynsian Policies is the only way as was the Marshall plan soon after the second world war it was extremely successful wholesale Nationalisation.

Turn right then left I am not looking for pure Socialism, in fact I am trying to highlight the idea is an old one.
And just maybe we can change the idea to fit in with the modern world.
Bronco lane BD and your self at some level have got it right, man can be both good and bad all on his/her own.
You BD understand I am no longer Christian, but all religions, we have no right to single any out as more wrong or right, have good and bad in them.
If your God came back today, I would invite him to visit a work site, one of the worst of course.
I think you may not like the thought but just maybe the money lenders he put down the steps would not be workers.
Now again what type of world do we want? can we make a brand new Socialism?in partner ship with Capitalism?
Can we make it work for those in true need ? and not hide those who use it in greed in its folds?
Can a true fill in job, no not work for the dole! true minimum AUSTRALIAN wages not American, be paid ,not sit down and rot money be paid? some may stay forever in such a job, other can be helped get the next foot on the ladder why not?
Are we content to see our streets forever full of people who live in the dark doorways? or do we agree every one should have a home?
Do we except the slide to American style minimum wages that brings homelessness and hunger?
Or can we do better?
Accountable Socialism not bound to uncaring failure but setting improvement targets every step for those who use it, why not?
BD old mate your God would surely not be offended if we stopped waiting for him to again feed the masses and did it our selfs would he?
regards all

Hi Belly and Bronco

Belly asks about 'can Socialism work with Capitalism'? You are talking there about 2 sets of (conflicting) ideas mate.

The point I was trying to make by referencing the prophets, is that it's not a 'one or the other' issue..... capitalism existed in ancient Israel.. and so did socialism, but not by those names.

Unfortunately also, when the leaders departed from God, and God's values of Justice, fairness and social compassion, the whole thing fell apart. The socialist aspect vaporized, and the capitalist side became hardened and uncaring.

Yes.. those Jesus drove out of the temple.. the money changers/merchants etc.. were certainly NOT 'workers' as you put it.

I would love to see a Prophet today :) He would role up to a building site.... perhaps where there was issues... and this is what he would say...

IN THE NAME OF GOD ALMIGHTY!.... You.. bosses who have deprived your workers of justice, and have sought to extract every last farthing from the sweat of their brows.. YOU... turn from your selfishness and return to the Lord God and his values.
and you.. unionist, who have been bullying people to join your union who arranged an "all call in sick" day... back off! return also to the Lord God.. and seek to resolve disputes with fairness and by the law of the Lord.

wow :) now THAT would be something.

Oh..by the way, the "Law of the Lord" when it comes to dispute resolution is found here.

Matthew 18

15"If your brother sins against you,[b] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector

I can only think in freedom terms,as the new US candidate Dr.Ron Paul puts it.May we take a lesson from this for our next elections:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/07/17/spotlight-on-presidential-candidate-ron-paul.aspx

Dear Boaz
Yes I want a tolerant society where people have their beliefs and not killed for holding them. With secretarian bloodshed this happens religion is man made where it divides all people and clouds the class struggle. Today we see an Australia that is divided by class the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer. A government that allows swindlers scam pensioners and only dithers the Howard Government does nothing. All the Howard Government does is spend tax payers money concentrating on getting re-elected. We need a Democratic Socialist Society that provides infrastructure. Builds railways, Collects all the rainwater that drops from the heavens with rainwater drains that flows into reservoirs. Builds roads new towns and invest in renewable energy. Do not touch Nuclear energy with a barge pole as it will be expensive and dangerous to all.

Well I did in my first post warn myself! heated sometimes so very wrong the debate will always be so.
Almost every one who so far took place in this thread is far from unintelligent yet we digress time and again.
Socialism in some form and Capitalism are working together right now.
Europe is much more Socialism than us America much more Capitalist.
Do not get me wrong, it is no dream of a Socialist or Communist Utopia that drives me.
And I refuse to wait for a man made dream called God to put things right.
It is my view Capitalism can not alone survive forever, and that Socialism in any of its forms so far used rule either.
But I highlight the stated intent of our education ,health care public transport, so very much more that is Socialism today.
Almost every one would share my view that needless waste is often seen in Socialism, and needless victims are created by Capitalism , see American street people, in the richest land in the world.
WHY?
Why not a new better way?
BD I am sure your God, yes once mine, would be more offended if we did not try to help the true poor than if we did.
And bloke if he existed and I was wrong I would be content to be sent to hell for living a life that required a fair go for workers , many of who like you are dreamers of the dream , the one that says man has no need to fix the world if he can
regards all from a proud trade unionist who is content to be judged by the share holders my members.