Close observers of Australian politics understand the term two party prefered comes about after preferences are distributed.
We know too small parties rarely win seats, but their preferences become votes for whatever of the big two they put before the other.
We could ask if small party voters understand they in fact vote for one of the big two? some clearly do not.
However why have both majors lost primary votes?maybe it is time the big two asked themselves this question,just maybe it is more important than some think

Dear Belly,

«We could ask if small party voters understand they in fact vote for one of the big two?»

Of course we do, but what other choice do we have? If we don't clip our nose and mark one or the other with the second-to-last number, then our ballot paper becomes informal. The Australian electoral system is deliberately designed in such a way that real people can never be represented.

both majors are the reason in part small parties exist, both fail often, to fully inform their followers of why some policies must be,room exists in the major two for almost every voter of every small party even single people standing as independents.issues that shed voters/fuel smallpartys, in the end if adopted would shed even more for the big two, such issues include migration refugee intake , health education and welfare however few small party seats are won in the lower house, so even the most anti one of the two, can in fact vote for them due to the preference system hence 4 in ten one nation votes in longman returned to Labor

Dear Belly,

Over the past decades there has been a steady decline in
support for the major parties, neither of which is able
to win a majority of support in their own right. The Libs
without the Nationals and Labor without the heavy
flow of preferences from Greens votes.

Things are more complicated nowadays. The capacity of
strong locally based Independents to defeat the major
parties has grown. For example people like Andrew Wilkie
(Hobart) and Bob Katter (outback Queensland) and Nick
Xenophon (SA), and so on.

The declining party loyalties - politics has become more complex -
straddling both economic and social issues. Then we also
have break-aways like the Conservative movement (Cory
Bernardi, Pauline Hanson and One Nation), which may or may
not have a strong effect.

Changes are on the horizon. Who knows what the ultimate result
will be - and who will or won't, unite with whom.

Yes Foxy true, but it was my intention to ask, even tell why that is so,harsh but true both majors if they took the policies of their small parties who once lived in their tent, would reduce their vote base by 5 to ten percent, such issues?If Liberals ran with Abbott policies they would find that true Liberals would flee, should Labor [remember I am not saying it would be wrong, just true] took on the greens migration/refugee policies it would have the same result,what do both sides do about it? how about open honest telling us that, explaining why some policies bring tens to us but drive hundreds away,SOME VOTERS do not even understand how preferences work, true,see longman, Liberals suffered a ten percent primary loss, most of them went to one nation, work is needed in informing voters not preaching to them question *is there any chance support for penalty rates cuts has driven some conservatives to small parties* the same has happened to Labor

Dear Belly,

You're right. Both parties need to listen to the concerns
of voters. The need to formulate policies that will address
these concerns - and they need to explain their policies
in a way that the voters will understand. Voters are
sick of slogans, of double-speak, of assurances that make
no sense - they need to have practical and real solutions
to problems - and they need to get back their belief and
confidence in their chosen party. Each party should outline
their values and what they stand for - and explain this
in terms of addressing the issues that concern voters.

Preferential voting is a fraud. The only way to change the system is to refuse to vote for any candidate. If enough people did that, something would be done. Writing 'none of these' on the ballot paper is not going to bring the country to a screeching halt, and it could do a lot of good. Other countries survive a single tick or cross against the name of one candidate; so can Australia.

ttbn,
yes but the average consumers will not want to step out of their comfort zone to make things better for all.

Prof. David Flint writes that “Turnbull’s time is up”, following the “ appalling Liberal Party performance in the five Super Saturday by-elections…”. If Turnbull remains the leader of the Liberal Party, Bill Shorten will be our next PM, no matter how bad for Australia that will be. Turnbull’s rabbiting on about the ‘history’ of by-elections tonight shows how stupid and unaware of reality he is - a “self-indulgent and ineffective campaigner”, whose policies are little different from Labor’s. So, why wouldn’t voters give Labor a go?

The only way for the Liberal party to survive (not just get re-elected) is to bring back Abbott and clean out the cabinet swamp.

individual,

You are right. Australian voters are not brave people.

Australian voters voted unanimously in these by-elections
for the strong locally based people that they felt will address
the problems in their areas. I don't think the
voters were concerned about party loyalties so much
as their local issues being addressed - mainly economic.

ttbn,
If the Libs will sink without Tony Abbott as leader, they definitely won't survive with him in charge. Shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic springs to mind - but as the coal bunker's on fire, that's just the tip of the iceberg!

Fortunately we have preferential voting: a genuinely democratic system where standing for parliament won't reduce your supporters' chance of deciding the winner. So even if the Libs become a minor party, you don't have to give your first preference to Labor to keep the Greens out!

This post will be a little off topic but I will return to subject soon, writing none of the above just see,s that not be counted,yes in my view one vote one value is the best system, however it would take many elections for voters to understand by voting small party their vote would, true, not count, unless the very rare election of such a lower house single person or party took place.my recipe for increasing the big two primary is within our current system, be honest, how many voters think 70 million in tax cuts right now is the wanted out come? how many thought the very deliberate death roll the ALP in Tasmania took, in trying to ban poker machines, yes yes know it for the most part is a good idea, BUT KNEW the instant it was tabled good intentions and bad policy had just handed the election to the other side,, some policy shed voters

Conservative, Professor James Allan, reckons "Mid to long term, voting for Labor is best for right of centre voters in this country, however hard to swallow it may be”. As a Turnbull hater, that’s what he did at the last election, he says. It’s all about putting up with Labor to get rid of Turnbull ready for the election after the coming one.

I can’t stomach that, so I will be writing ‘none of these’ on the lower house paper, and going for Australian Conservatives in the senate.

The best thing about the by-elections is that the Greens went even further down, and One Nation went up.

Well still shop like I am in the bust, every two weeks, ABC radio this morning in my view highlights why we are seeing a decline in big two first preference votes,every Liberal who came to comment said the same thing *this was never a test for the government*how many truly think that? Turnbull is both being pushed and pulled over his high end tax cuts Abbott never to rise again, says dump them others demand they be kept,like the Tasmanian poker machine thing, at this time such cuts are bad policy vote loss policy,Turnbull if his party had the courage, being replaced, policy direction changes,could make a return more likely or the loss lesser

The media has noted that Turnbull reacted to his by-election drubbing in the same way he reacted to his near loss in the last federal election - by blaming everyone but himself. No recognition that he betrayed the Coalition by being the most Left wing leader ever; no recognition of his betrayal by signing up for the Paris Accord (no, it was not Tony Abbott); no recognition that his Left wing policies on climate change have put electricity prices through the roof; no willingness to address the majority’s concern about mass immigration, and so on.

How could Shorten be any worse? The only real difference, we have kidded ourselves, is ‘the boats’. Well, in government, Turnbull has proved that he cannot be trusted on anything else, so can we be confident that he can be trusted to stick with Abbott’s boat policy if there is something personal in it for Turnbull? Remember, Turnbull’s government has been complicit in a compact that would hand our borders over to the United Nations. How can we believe Dutton’s protestations that Australia won’t sign up to something they helped set up?

This selfish, self-absorbed man is a disgrace who has put Australia in peril and treated us with utter contempt. He will go down in history as the worst Prime Minister ever: quite a feat after McMahon, Fraser, Gillard and Rudd

To Ttbn - The reason Turnbull is moving towards the Paris accords is because his "backers" want him to. What I've seen about Dutton he's doing ok. The problem with politics is the parties need money to get things done- and the people giving the money also want things done...
Democracy is loosely based on the "principle of distribution of power"- Westminster system/ levels of government/ upper and lower houses- the problem is when companies especially multinationals use money, etc to get what they want- it causes "centralization of power". Aristotle talked at length on Tyranny, Oligopoly, Democracy in The Politics. This is a flaw in modern democracy that tends to tyranny

Voters are weary of the constant schoolyard insults both sides throw at each other too of the determination to support one of their own who is clearly wrong, can we not see such stuff supposes voters are not intelligent enough to see the truth? where are the nation building policies? not the tax cuts health cuts but some thing grand like the Snowy River was? say turning some rivers inland? look closely at any party and tell me currently the main policy seems to be feeding division not popular wants and needs, but most importantly watch as the primary vote continues to sink

Hi Belly,

"...it was my intention to ask, even tell why that is so,harsh but true both majors if they took the policies of their small parties who once lived in their tent, would reduce their vote base by 5 to ten percent, such issues?"

This isn't a left / right paradigm issue, but a foreign elite interests vs Australian citizens interests issue.

Remember this:
If you change the base, you change the government.
Therefore if you want to change the nations government change its base; by demographics and with immigration.

LOOK HERE!!
http://youtu.be/364cxeR5EAg?t=10m20s

"Look closely at any party and tell me currently the main policy seems to be feeding division not popular wants and needs."

Accident or by design?
FYI, nothing in politics happens by accident.

Democracy is just a vehicle where generations of hard work nation building are eventually transferred to private interests for pennies on the dollar.
Its a scam.

ArmChair Critic, well let us first ask about voters, do we both think all of them put much thought in to why they vote and who for? do they understand, this time not all just those who vote for the minors, that it is very unlikely, unless that minor party has a seat in the house of blackmail, the senate, they can do anything? do those voters even know they in fact via the preferential system vote in the end for one of the big two? now about Democracy, with all its faults surely the only existing system that works? then as the majority, still, ends up ruling us is that not the best out come we can expect?in the end in our imperfect world we should not look for better than that

Hi Belly,
So what are you saying; that with democracy the majority don't even pay attention to politics and are easily manipulated by appealing to peoples emotions?

How can it be the best system if half the nation don't even understand how it works?

- But I know what you're trying to say.

"...now about Democracy, with all its faults surely the only existing system that works? then as the majority, still, ends up ruling us is that not the best out come we can expect?"

If the majority of voters are uninformed idiots then they will all drag us to hell, sounds more like the bottom line.

Does it really work;
How can one claim it works whilst acknowledging half the nation are clueless on how it works?
This seems illogical, does it not?

- Maybe it works FOR people in power BECAUSE half the nation are clueless?
Maybe it works BECAUSE people are stupid, not IN SPITE OF it?
- But I digress -

Yes democracy is the best system we have, (I ain't no commie either) but the point I was trying to emphasise is that people shouldn't overlook its flaws, because it is deeply flawed, and has the seeds of its own destruction built in.
It can be used against our interests just as much as it can be used in our interests.

Armchair Critic truth is the politics is boring mob are more interested in the iphone and bottled water, the they are all the same mob too,some think a house full of independents is good, while in truth it would become a place for deals and blackmail, we already have one of those we call it the senate,one vote one value is in my view the best way to vote but some will say it is undemocratic not to let the chooks loose in the top paddock/senate

We all have firm opinions about the subject of politics, we however seem lost or most of us do, as to why voters no longer trust the big two,we know, or should via the preference system their vote ends up with them still, so we could say a vote for smaller parties, unless in that dead letter office the senate, is a wasted vote, it will not however stall the drift from the big two,even one vote one value, surely the fairest way? is in the end forcing voters to? well think about it,voter disenchantment with our system and those who own it may one day lead to a Trump like victor only the big two by their actions and policies in the end can turn this around

Maybe we should have a better look at the issues forced upon us to divide us.

We have the issue of immigration.
Combined with the added input of identity politics were divided on race based issues.

Then take the issue of homosexuality.
Combined with the added input of 'safe schools' 'transgender toilets',

[Cont.]

- Sorry about that, I accidentally posted before finished writing whilst using a touch screen phone -

We have the issue of immigration.
Combined with the added input of identity politics were divided on race based issues.

Then take the issue of homosexuality.
Combined with the added input of 'safe schools' 'transgender toilets', were all now divided over sexuality based issues.

I could probably go through a whole list of just about every social issue where some other bs has been added into the narrative to ensure were all well and truly divided against each other over every issue.

And what is the end result?
Well were all completely disunified against each other on so many issues that there is no real sense of national unity;
Because we all now completely disagree on just about everything.

And sometimes we disagree for no other reason than because some people think with emotion and some carefully read the fine print and look at the bigger picture.

Dear AC,

Do you really believe that so many people are concerned
about the issues of homosexuality, transgender, or even
immigration?

Talk to your neighbours and get their opinions - they
just may surprise you as to where their concerns
really lie.

Hi Foxy,
"Do you really believe that so many people are concerned
about the issues of homosexuality, transgender, or even
immigration?"

Well, I really shouldn't assume to know the beliefs and opinions of 25 million other Aussies;
But I think many are concerned about these issues while others are probably not concerned so much at all.

But I was really only using them as examples of the divisiveness.

A friend of mine runs a hairdressing salon.
Her husband recently told me that they had a client who brought their kid to the appointment, and they (the client / parent) had a disagreement with my friend the hairdresser.
The client had issue with my friend not treating her child in a gender neutral manner, over something simple and trivial that she said when speaking with the child.

- Battle of the sexes in Parliament...
- People protesting others right to free speech...

Ultimately, I think the bigger agenda by those who wish to socially engineer society is the destruction of any kind of nationalism, for agendas of globalism and One World government, and planetary rule by the elite.

You can't get the citizens of the world to go along with that unless you destroy or subvert what already exists.
Why else do we have people running around sporting hammer and sickle logos of communism if someone isn't deliberately promoting the ideology?

So for us, they need to destroy and divide our nation to the point we wouldn't recognise our own if abroad.
That there is no general ethnicity, beliefs or culture representative of this nation, just inhabitants that are slave to a larger global system.

To destroy what we have they first need to get all of us living here to argue over everything.
I do honestly think that's largely where we are at presently.

Just for a few seconds imagine you owned a corner store, you sold one product, politics,as people walked past on their way to work or the cafe down the road you would want them to come in and at least browse around ok? say your window display was an item called policies, you dressed the window with, work till you are 70! tax cuts for the banks that are under investigation! no pension rises! get your health cuts here!education costs to rise! and across the road the other shop had screaming headlines BLAH BLAH BLAH! in its windows are we getting the point?

All talk and no action Belly?

Armchair Critic let me see are you telling me the same sex debate is the reason the big two have lost votes, look let me be clear I do not care what same sex couples do, , voted to give them rights, what your point is not clear to me, however both sides have lost first preference votes over the last two decades, on the face of it those who left in the end never found what they wanted from the smaller parties and their vote returned hence two party prefered

Had another look ACC yes even from my side the view we are puppets ,that some force is working to make, if we want it or not, one world one people exists, I share that thought,it however would be much bigger than out two party system or even our country, yes no defense,it seems our links, our ability to be united, even unionism, is unwanted by the *them*we talk of, we in the absence of proof are forced to live in the world we have, not the one we want,with that in mind, knowing most will think us quite mad, for holding such views,we can only, after considered thought, vote for who we see as the best