Dear o sung wu,

Do I think if Is Mise was the one who trained this bloke in the use of the pistols he used to slaughter his children that he wouldn't have sleepless nights over it despite his obvious unseemly love of guns and his determination to see as much of the Australian population armed as possible?

Of course not.

However Is Mise attempted to divert the point Paul was making to instead raise Edward's military training.

All I was doing was employing the same technique to directly accuse him of not caring about these kids deaths. If that tactic is legitimate when he does it then it is legitimate when I do it.

For the record I don't think it is legitimate at all but in Is Mise's case if he lives by the sword …

Is Mise has been determined to build his case of guns in homes and accuses those who oppose this as uncaring and responsible when an unarmed person is raped or murdered. It has to work both ways.

Steele,

Are you as stupid as you portray yourself?

"Thus enabling him to purchase the guns he slaughtered his children with."

The club didn't enable him to purchase anything, FAR gave him the licence and the Permits to Purchase and the Commissioner's Permit got him past the clubs objections.

Does it not occur to you that the club officials would take the view that the Commissioner knew more than they did and act accordingly.

To be given a Commissioner's Permit is no light thing and is rather rare.

John Edwards- Sadly we've seen this soap opera play out many times now. It appears that John Edwards built up his career and in his sixties hadit all taken away through the family court by a woman of 36- thirty years his junior. Commonly women want sole custody from my limited understanding. It appears common for women who have the power in the system to try to manipulate the situation to their advantage by provocation, etc.

There's a lesson here for all men

1. Marry in your financial circle to a woman with a job that pays at least as much as you- not drawn in by a pretty face. If she quits her job divorce her immediately. At least if you divorce (>50% chance) you'll lose less of your assets.

2. if you are unwise enough to have children expect to become a slave to your ex-wife as she will likely get custody. There really doesn't appear to be any way to avoid this. Vasectomy seems to be the best option- though it's not completely risk free. A beautiful gentle woman can become an aggressive violent powerful pitiless demon in the family court. In chinese language the word "good" is made up of the characters for "woman and child". The UN has a convention on the rights of "women and children". If women are the "definition of good" what hope for men.

There are a number of NGO's that will help women through the Family Court System but few historically that will help men. Out of the large number of men in custody disputes only a small number resort to murder- I'm surprised given the stories that more don't resort to these terrible solutions. The more I hear about men in this situation the more I pity them- they are often very capable men that have been trapped by this situation. Reminds me of war. I'm sure most have seen hopeless situations where a good man is reduced to a desperate shadow- there has to be a better way.

Any animal that is cornered will fight or run.

//The club didn't enable him to purchase anything//

Issy that is a lie, and you know it. If the St Mary's Gun Club, or some other club, had not taken Edwards on as member, and given him the required training, Edwards would never have been able to purchase the guns he used to murder his children.

Greens MP David Shoebridge;

(commissioner’s) permits were a “legal loophole” that sat outside the national firearms agreement and “needs to be shut”.

“Having a gun is a privilege, not a right, and the law needs to clearly say if you don’t meet the test for a gun you don’t get one, with no exceptions,”

Shoebridge called on the NSW police commissioner, Mick Fuller, to “publicly state why this permit was issued and what, if any, third party representations were made in support of it”.

“Until an urgent and public safety review has been done no further special commissioner’s permits should be issued,”
“We need tough gun laws that protect women and children, not weak ones with loopholes that only empower men.”

Shoebridge said firearm laws should include notifications and veto rights when gun permits or licences are sought “at a minimum”.

“Gun violence prevention orders would allow family members who may be at risk to have a court order that a former partner’s guns be removed,”

This is the kind of sensible politics we need to stop the outrageous behaviour that is occurring right now.

I ask; How many more John Edwards's are there in the community, members of gun clubs, gun owners, who given the slightest prevarication, will explode with catastrophic consequences?

All because of lax gun control laws.

Paul,

"Issy that is a lie, and you know it. If the St Mary's Gun Club, or some other club, had not taken Edwards on as member, and given him the required training, Edwards would never have been able to purchase the guns he used to murder his children."

A Commissioner's Permit overrides all, even the decision of a Magiistrate and you need go no further than your own Sandalplank,

" Greens MP David Shoebridge;

(commissioner’s) permits were a “legal loophole” that sat outside the national firearms agreement and “needs to be shut”.

“Having a gun is a privilege, not a right, and the law needs to clearly say if you don’t meet the test for a gun you don’t get one, with no exceptions,” [which it does, except for Commissioner's Permits].

Shoebridge called on the NSW police commissioner, Mick Fuller, to “publicly state why this permit was issued and what, if any, third party representations were made in support of it”
[Go, David!!]

Might I remind you that Edwards was a former soldier and as such was trained in the use of firearms (in recruit training), so spread your vitriolic BS somewhere where it might be believed.

Steele,

"However Is Mise attempted to divert the point Paul was making to instead raise Edward's military training."

Not at all, no diversion intended, but a refutation.

Don't you feel at all responsible, Steele, as a citizen of Australia that you are partly responsible for Edward, the ex-soldier, being trained in the use of firearms?

Sleeping well?

How are you going with finding some evidence that the firearms laws have been weakened?

You don't need me to quote you again, do you?