NNS, I believe if someone is a victim of some wrong doing, let them stand up and seek redress.
I personally reject those people and their pretense, that they are fighting or backing or understand a particular cause being promoted by someone else.
For example only those children who were abused are allowed to stand up and make a stand or seek justice or whatever they feel.
No-one has the right to promote themselves into their plight under the guise of being concerned or sympathetic to their cause and so on. These people are arrogant vultures looking to benefit from some poor souls distress and despair, simply to ingratiate themselves in the victims spot light for their own selfish self serving agenda.
When someone says they have had a good life free of all these bad things and has no complaints, and openly considers themselves to having been very fortunate, I find any comments this person has on any topic they have not experienced, to be just imaginary opinions, and as much as they may feel sympathy for the people and their cause, they cannot feel empathy, so, I'm sorry but their intentions, in their own mind, might be genuine, but their credibility suffers decrementally.

Foxy said- "In 2014 women in full-time employment in America were
paid, on average 79% of the incomes paid to men.
That's despite huge rises in women's education and it seems
according to reporting in November 2015 - that it will take
over 100 years for women to be paid the same amount for the
same work. This reflects sexism in hiring practices,
inequality in maternity and paternity leave, glass ceilings,
hostile work environments, the cultural expectation that
women not fight for pay rises, occupational segregation and
women's work being undervalued among other things."

Answer- Jordan Peterson has commented that even in societies such as Norway and Sweden women still are under represented in certain fields such as Engineering and over-represented in Teaching. He has said that there are many possible reasons why women may be underpaid and based on a statistical multivariate analysis says that prejudice seems to account for somewhere around 15% of the effect from memory. Jordan talks about equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.

There may be other reasons why men are paid more- eg. they may tend to be less risk adverse, there is perhaps a perception that men argue less so they are given more opportunities. If women want to get paid equally then they may need to get in there and get the job done. There are many situations in which females are happy to get positive bias- this sort of discredits their arguments as to equality. Equality means accepting the good with the bad. If women believe that men are harming them then women should be capable to set up their own women only society and put a wall around it. It is bound to be more productive than male society if the assertions of feminists are true. Most men do not rape women- to imply that men participate in a rape culture is offensive. Leave men alone to do their own thing with their own people. The world is not a perfect place and everyone has been in situations which are unfair- sometimes the harm is done by women.

Many men feel that they want to help women but the favour isn't returned and they have an attitude of entitlement. Many men feel more bullied by women than women feel bullied by them. At some point some men start to feel that is just the way women are and try to avoid them as much as they can. See MGTOW. John Stuart Mill - it's better to let thirty guilty men free than to convict one innocent man. It's disappointing when you realize that feminism will become irrelevant when our society is deconstructed by the war between the sexes. So much for the family facing off the world. An example of winning the battle but losing the war. The underlying issue seems to be that some men (and some women) use power in an illegitimate way to get what they want- this is the story of the world- we need to improve it- but alienating men is not going to achieve it- but I suspect that the trust between the sexes has degraded past the point of no return.

CM, kudos to you.
I enjoy reading your posts, even if I might not always completely agree with you.
Your latest one however is above and beyond.
Now a must warn you, I hope you have a good suite of armour and are thick skinned because you can expect a spray of negativity challenging you and your comments from the obvious quarters.
For my part I have challenged the notion of equality of the sexes and I have made it quite clear, I do not care for it and the reasons why. It is difficult to make headway when you make a valid point and the response is personal or off topic or a deflection.
In all these cases I have suggested that these are the antics of one who has lost the debate, as they cannot refute or challenge the facts before them.
So we continue with personal and emotional representations.
If we're lucky.

Calem Malum,

Studies have shown that anecdotal evidence is more powerful
in influencing people's opinions. Stats can only do so
much. I purposely chose not to go into my own personal
details in my response to NNS because I was sure
he'd understand the points being made.

I could have
thrown in my own experiences and those of my friends,
people that I know and worked with who discovered they
made less then their male colleagues who did the same
job.

I could have talked about attempts at being felt up
and poked on public transport and harassed by strangers.
I could have talked about surprised clients who couldn't
believe I was a "girl" and so good at my job.

All these stories (and many more) are true -
I just chose not to marshall them here. I preferred to
emphasize the positive because I've since tried to move
on.

As for Mr Peterson's comments?

The Harvard Business Review has found in repeated studies the
social cost of negotiating for higher pay has been found to be
greater for women than for men.

Ask your boss for more money and risk being seen as ungrateful
and pushy. Don't ask for more and you'll be paid less for the
rest of your career.

Thus discrimination in negotiation practices constitues
evidence of the equal pay gap and why it exists - and not as
argument against it.

Many critics argue that the gender wage gap does not reflect
reality and cannot take into account all of the factors that
might contribute to a disparity in pay between men and women.

Oeverall, there exists a variety of evidence to debunk some
of the most common arguments people use to discredit not only
the gender pay gap that exists but also other arguments
against sexual discrimination.

Hopefully with education about the inaccuracy of these
arguments things will continue to change for many.

To Foxy. In the last comment on page 8 of this topic, you said, "unless we change our culture -nothing will change. ... men have to be part of this change."

It's not that I disagree that women need more support in one way or another, but concern for women doesn't do much if the agendas follow the same pattern. To agree with them or leave.

Look at it this way. If it comes down to getting men to be part of the change, but only if they are "yes men," who only have a voice of agreement, how many other men are left out of the equation. By women making a scene and calling off all the men who disagree, it creates a whole other situation of who is willing to take part in the issues the women activists are trying to champion.

One group is the "yes" men. A group of dwindling men who eventually in one cause or another will either get a line to tell them to shut up, or they choke down their other silent opinions in the light that they aren't really wanted anyways. It has nothing to do with whether the cause is worth while at this point, because eventually there is likely to be a cause that he is not in line with the activist group. So even with those who might agree with a cause, due to the scene of the activists, many don't want to get involved. It's not worth the trouble and the men aren't wanted in the first place.

The second group is the "no" men. Those who either disagree with the cause being brought up, or disagree with the women activists as a whole. Same issue here as the yes men, who care wants to get involved in the topic? Those that say nothing might have good points in the topic of the cause but are polite enough to stay out of it. Leaving those who do speak up the ones that are fed up by the whole affair.

(Continued)