Cherful, your last post goes a long way to making one of my previous points.
For there to be a proper and healthy family unit, it needs a mother and a father.
I do not subscribe to this new age thinking and the idea that a single parent or part-time parenting is a the BEST or most ideal environment for the raising of children.
I do not advocate any form of physical abuse for any reason.
I remember once suggesting somewhere that when hubby starts getting physical, there should be an action squad that the missus can call up, (like you would any help line) and very quickly you would find two or three burly blokes on your door step that would proceed to give hubby a damn good hiding.
They would make sure that they left enough bruising (mainly on the face) for all to see what a prick he had been.
One of them would have to be some kind of medical professional so he would know when to stop.
The wife knew she had this to fall back on, and that someone had her back.
I guarantee he might have done it one more time but I doubt he would ever do it again.
And of course if he turned out to be a nutter, well he would end up inside.
On the other hand he would have no choice but to curb his anger, at least back to verbal, rather than physical.
Now that would address each problem case by case and not treat ALL men as wife bashers.

To chearful.

I don't think anyone on here lacks the knowledge of oppression to women in several societies; nor do I see arguments that are about harming women. But instead are fed up with the women activists and the pattern of arguments and behavior that they bring.

Personally I agree with most points made against the activists.

•From being unrealistic on having equal job oppurtunity on the jobs that require higher physical qualifications as in the end lowered the standards for those qualifications. (No one has argued against having equal pay).

•To women activists making a show in their activism to either further their cause because they expect everyone else to back down, or because it feels good to be part of the glow of having the spotlight on them while standing up for one cause or another.

•To the fact that though women have said and do say they want men to be part of these changes they promote, it s too evidant that they really don't want men's say in these things. If they agree great. Let's pile on many compliments to them saying they are real men. If they ever disagree, throw them under the bus, their opinion was never really wanted anyways.

That last point is one I've been stressing. But so far most of the points, (no matter how insulting it feels to look at), have a lot of merit and are worth their consideration by women activists in general. If you want men on board, then do two things. 1) Listen to their critisms, there might be more to them then you want to believe. And 2) stop the common attitudes to throw men under the bus at a moments notice. That just stops most men from responding to these issues except those that are too fed up to say silent, and those that are only in a supportive stance but lost their right to have an opinion outside of that.

NNS, Kudos to you. I could not have put it better myself.

Dear CHERFUL,

I've only just now come across your post directed
to me.

Thank You so much for your well reasoned and intelligent
comments.

You and I both know that for many women the "past" has not
gone away.

Some women want to stay home, raise children and get their
fulfilment from being spouses and mothers. And that is wonderful.
The key element of feminism is the idea of freedom to choose
in a supportive environment. Women should be able to choose
whether that's their destiny or not, and not be forced into
it by prescribed gender roles, bad employment opportunities,
no educational access and other restrictions.

In a perfectly equal world, everybody male and female should
be able to choose to be a house-partner or to march off to be
a CEO. The playing field is not level, even if a man's limited
experience dictates that it is. Women genuinely do just want
to be given the same opportunities and rewards (for equal work)
as men.

It seems relatively simple but you'd be surprised by how many
people fight it, or see it as threatening their vested interests.

The whole point is that women today are no longer willing to behave
as victims. They are fighting back giving themselves a voice and
making sure that everybody knows what's happening to them and
why it is no longer OK.

Once again - thank you for telling it like it is for so many
women.

Hi-Five! Foxy,

We did our best to make our brothers understand.