NNS what about Mose's refugees, killing the Canaanites, sacking Jericho? Great start to obtain their 'promised land'. In ancient times, that is a general opinion, that a good king or warlord, could fight and fight well. "Julius Caesar" got where he was by good oration, fantastic political power, and riches. He who has the army behind him/her is in control. Jesus wasn't like that at all.

I expect you know after Cromwell's death, England did no longer have a standing Army. The only one they had in the first world war were the Indian Army. They had an army as such but not very large in comparison to the second world war, or first world war. My grandfathers were in the first world war, my maternal grandfather was on the Naval reserve, and called in to train gunners. What this means that in ancient times in the Levant and Asia minor, they had standing trained troops. Especially the Romans.

Anyway I am nearly 80 and in my later years educated myself, and I have a BA, and GCA.(Majoring in Ancient history, and Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology), Diploma in organic farming production, Horticulture certs, and training in the workplace Cert. Published a non fiction book, and several short stories about the Australian Bush. I have worked for politicians, and although I consider myself spiritual, I know there is a good creative spirit in nature and within human beings. I do not believe in magic.

Wisdom does come with life's experiences and wonder of how people live their lives. I lived in the Levant, visited the Holy Land, Egypt and Cyprus, and - we British were not welcome anywhere, except Malta.

I don't need a bible to tell me that God exists, and Jesus was divine, because I can't take it as the 'gospel' truth. It's propaganda to me.
Sorry to sound blasphemous.

'

Life after death, well I hope so. But will we remember our lives, or just become some conscious energy, that can not communicate with our living friends and relations. We will find out.

I believe there is a part of us that wants to believe, we may project what we hope are beliefs in communing with past loves, etc. I think it is so unromantic and hard to believe otherwise. And I think part of the grieving process.

Anyway, I read somewhere an anecdote, "The truck driver driving explosives, drives better and more carefully than one who believes in an afterlife" It's a thought.

To Bush Bunny. Your blasphemy that your apologizing for isn't a new position for me to hear. I feel sorry for you, for not knowing God, and not having Him in your life but I'm not offended by your positions. I have several friends I grew up with that don't believe in God. And I feel sorry for them as well.

As for Moses. A big difference between him and other leaders is that the stories of Moses aren't a secrete thing that have only a few witnesses to confirm his stories. The whole nation of Israel, even before they had a home of their own saw the events take place as they followed Moses out of Egypt. If there is truth in the events taken place in the bible then Israel followed Moses because of God's acts were readily seen by the people. They surely didn't follow him for other reasons, because several times in the journey they complained enough that it would seem they would leave Moses in a moment to return to Egypt if it wasn't for God answering their grumbling, as well as dealing with their actions.

Regarding the Caananites, the bible explains that they were a very sinful bunch of people, and as God's punishment for their sins, He was removing them from that land. Both biblical and historical research support that the people of that land were horrible. Prostitute shrines and child sacrificing alters. Murderers and cruelty. If there was a reason to remove any people from their own poison that they do, the Caananites sure seem to possess several reasons on their own. Both from the days that Abraham and Lot's travels in the land through Isaac's and Jacob's travels. As well as later when Israel came to the land and fought with them throughout their history. The people of Canaan don't seem to be innocent bystanders that people reoresent them as in criticism towards Israel.

Watch this space NNS. You are so wrong its blasphemous in my book. The Bible is written by men or women, the latter I doubt. The fables suit the politics of the day and power struggles in an multi cultural middle east at a time, when there were no monotheistic religions. We are talking anything from 1300 BC to 587 BC. The first Bible the Hebrew Bible was not written before 500 BC because they had no written language to speak of. It was written in archaic Hebrew language. I'll come back and I believe in a God or divine spirit. It's just I don't believe in evangelic fundamentalist religions or a Christian image of one divinity who watches over us and punishes us or controls us. If that is the case why didn't he punish Joshua. I don't believe Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible.

To Bush Bunny. If there is some article or resurch to look at for the Hebrews not having a written language, I'd be intreasted in seeing it. If it is about no surviving origional texts I'll pass on that being proof of there not being a written language.

However I will keep an eye on this conversation. I don't know how much I'll get in to reply. My wife and I just recently bought our first home. So there's some work ahead of us that I hope to get done soon and settled in more.

Earlier you apologized for having blasphemous perspectives. And I don't want you to think that you've offended me because I've heard people challenge my faith throughout my life. Even some friends get into a good grove of their conversation and forget there was a Christian among them. The mocking of Christianity from close friends hurt me more then your doubts ever will. That said you've called what I've said to be blasphemous to you. If that's so, then I'm sorry if I've offended you. But I won't cgange my views of the bible being from God because it is offensive to others. Sorry but that's as far as I'm willing to go on the matter.

To AJ Philips.

If you're still watching this conversation I'm still trying to write out some other points here. However I don't have all of the conversation bookmarked to quote your words exactly. Since this was requested from you earlier it is taking more time to find the points I thought were spoken and quote them directly.

If your not still watching this conversation. No worries.