Opine2, Jesus and the gospels are not part of the OT. The Old Testament with its horror stories, allegedly 5 books written by Moses, were written to frighten people of the evil of misbehavior. Sodom and Gomorrah,Lot offered his daughters (virgins) to the mob, instead of one of the angels. Then his wife was turned to salt and he ended sleeping with his daughters. I don't know what moral is in there, do you?

The Wedding was beautiful, but I enjoyed the black preacher who went on and on, so passionate that smirks seem to appear on some of the guests faces (not about what he was saying) but how he was saying it, quoting some part of what? about Love makes the world go around. Talk about fire and brimstone but rather a likeable chap.

The trouble with quoting the bible, be careful, different Christian denominations have their own. The St.James version, even explains things to readers. The doubt of whom wrote what, and the contradictions within it. No it is not a particularly pleasant book to read I admit, but people get out of it what they will. People can be tricked or lied to as you say. But don't cram it down our throats.

I love history, and it is interesting to understand, that the world was restricted to the Levant and Middle East in the days it was allegedly written down, often by people who never met Jesus. They were fanatical in my opinion. But the real message Jesus left us and I believe has merit is God is Love and Light. Some people are selfish and closed minded, used to be under the control of higher ups, and never get a chance to love and that is a spiritual and human capacity.

BB I know all this stuff? Really you think I need to be told Jesus is in the NT? Sheesh! Some Christians think Jesus and God are one so if they are then Jesus is the God of the OT to them!

Did your history lessons teach you that?

I'll get back to the Bible.

The Bibles have been changed from the original wording to things like this.

THIS IS BIBLICAL SCHOLARS AND THE RELIGIONS RE-WRITING HISTORY!

Douay-Rheims - Catholic Bible - David's Holocaust

2Samuel 12:31 And bringing forth the people thereof HE SAWED THEM, and DROVE OVER THEM chariots armed with iron: and DIVIDED THEM with knives, and MADE THEM PASS THROUGH BRICKKILNS: so did he to all the cities of the children of Ammon: and David returned, with all the army to Jerusalem.

Catholic...Online Bible - Now David's Sunday working bee...lmao

2Samuel 12:31 And he expelled its inhabitants, setting them to work with saws, iron picks and iron axes, employing them at brickmaking. He treated all the Ammonite towns in the same way. David and the whole army returned to Jerusalem.

For those who can't tell I have highlighted the original important words that were changed in capitals.

The Douay-Rheims is the Catholic Bible translated from the Latin Vulgate. Other Bibles did the same!

Christians claim the Bible is God's word when men are changing it!

That is history being changed in front of your eyes to deceive you all.

The religions do this without a care because they are in it for the money NOT the truth!

This has occurred many, many times... so never throw out an old Bible. Who knows what manipulations will be done next!

Aint Bible study when done honestly fun!

Yes Opine 2, so we agree on one point, the Bible is not truthful records or have been changed to suit the reader, like Greek into Latin, into German and then English.

But if people practise that they should be compassionate to one another, honor their wedding vows, not bear false witness, adultery, stealing from another, worship idols or false Gods (according to the Jews and Christians), help the poor, and being honest, and not kill - well humans generally have not obeyed these commandments. And that is from the time that the Hebrew Bible was written, (There are 623 Mosaic commands)

In an ideal world where there is equality of gender and communal spirit, one would think these rules or commandments would go hand in hand. Well I woke up a long time ago to the fact, even in a so called democratic society, this can never be. Most of us are or will be neo-serfs, oh yes, employment particularly permanent not casual, evades us most times, and we are dependent on employers to pay our bills, feed us, have a roof over our heads. Being on the Dole barely feeds people, pensioners are unhappy because they have no apparent life to live and are lonely. But there are religious bodies and organisations that try to elevate these burdens, and thank God for them.

So those who strive to live a good life, following Jesus Christ to me will be rewarded, because doing good to others is rewarding.

Opine 2, I agree that taking the Bible literally, the six day creation, Jesus' resurrection and second coming, and quoting the Bible as being God's word, has to be taken metaphorically at least.

It was written and rewritten so many times, misquoted in my view, and basically with education and understanding the history of the times when it was written or we think written was a time that was horrible for the ordinary masses, subjected to slavery, paganism, slaughter by foreign powers just to dominate another race or society, was unbelievably fragile for the common people.

But faced by someone like Jesus to give them empowerment, spiritually and practicing miracles, must have been a fresh wind in a time of Roman occupation. The Jewish elders didn't like him, they saw him as abusing their powers especially the attack on the Temple. Also the comment often used, "A camel has more chance of passing through the eye of an needle, than a rich man entering heaven'. That was taken literally and subversive in its comment. Now he may not have said it, that would be a testament that only the poor and powerless could enter heaven, and breed discontent among the Masses.

You should read on Google, St.Mark's secret gospels. Mark was there, and the Bishop of Antioch, was not pleased about its content. So they changed it.

Before the event of a written Holy Bible in different languages and available to those that could read, the Holy C was really so powerful to print anything against them was heresy.

There is some good DVD's available. Richard Dawkins of course, but he is against mainly the Bible belt in America. 'Religious' is a very irreverent but funny look at various religions. The History of the Bible, that is good too. There are several DVD's on that. 'Going Clear' DVD, and the book, opens up the hypocrisy against the Scientologists and money making made up religion.

To Bush Bunny.

You sound as if Josephes or I disrespected you, or hold O2 in higher respect. As far as I can tell there's no sign in the conversations to point in this direction. Except possibly my replies not agreeing with you, or Josephes saying he wasn't commenting because there wasn't intelligent conversations going on, only ravings.

That's my best guess why you would take insult. For Josephes it didn't seem like it was a comment directed at you, or placed towards women as opposed to men. Regarding my own replies, it doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. I don't agree with your points for the reasons I gave. It has nothing to do with being a woman.

Your statement towards us makes me wonder if there's something else that's going on. A previous conversation with someone else perhaps, who spoke against women? Or something else entirely?

Either way, don't fuss too much about being a wise woman to me. God has said in many places of the bible that He honors the humble, and humbles the proud. In my experience this seems to be true too. Whenever I see people (or myself) brag too much, there's usually something that pops up just around the corner that drops the person down a peg or two. Just a heads up. It's something I've observed regardless of religous beliefs of the person.

Saying your wise doesn't make you sound better to me either. In fact it raises a red flag in my opinion. Doing things for others like working in a woman's shelter raises my opinion of you. But taking about magic spells, generalizing religions, and calling yourself wise when no one said you weren't, all raise red flags to me. Though this shouldn't be a popularity contest for how you are viewed. But if it helps at all. Between your views and O2's views. I disagree with both. But I respect your more. It has to do with a manipulative kind of tone that I read from O2.

To O2.

When you have an issue with translation consider looking it up by a concordance. There's at least one app out there (it's free) to help out, and I'm sure you can find something else online too. Based on the verse, I looked it up in a concordance. It's in Hebrew I believe. 4 words only in that verse, that when translated seem to suggest the older translation that you quoted. Doesn't make David sound like a great guy, but this is also during ongoing wars and battles. No one plays it nice when war is involved. This makes David another man like any one else. On the other hand, if I've read it correctly, the Ammonites who David conquered in that verse had been attacking Israel first. They aren't innocent victims any more then Japan was an innocent victim of the atom bombs after they attacked a US naval base. Call the reaction however you like but in today's world or in ancient days, there are no morals in war.