Well, if you are unsure of something, you will always be seeking answers. Same with prayer. I think it is the comfort prayer provides to the prayee. God or Gods are the announcement of their function in human life. Pagans had numerous gods, Christians have Saints, but the Godhead various depending on the culture.

In the irreverent and funny DVD 'Religious' he interviews a priest from the Vatican, I checked this man out he exists. Incredibly, the priest said, 'Who do you think came top on the list of whom people pray too, Jesus came 5th. We don't know when he was born, but it's a pleasant and happy holiday."

My observation of religious friends is that they are unsure of the future, and unfortunately we can never say how it will turn out. The expectancy or fragile life is, we can only hope (or pray) that those loved ones stay close and survive the daily hazards that face us.

AJ and Opine 2, one can live a Christian life without quoting the bible or literary translation. I don't get on with so called Christians who do, SDAist particularly as I believe they are hypocritical and an enclosed order. Be with us or don't come near and shatter our beliefs with logic and science.

Formal religions like Anglican and Roman Catholic, plus the Uniting Church, and Baptists, do return to the community to do good charity work and welfare. But even the Salvos are loosing patrons to their services. So maybe science has destroyed their beliefs or taken the magic and mystery out of religion. But - one doesn't need a 2,500 year book, translated and re-translated, some meant for Jews, (of which Christianity is a faction). To gain the message, we are part of a wonderful evolution of ideas and technology, but we should remain part of the natural environment, protect it, and all living organisms with in it, excluding those that will harm us or others.

To AJ Philips

I'm sorry for your loss of faith. Honestly I wasn't aware how hard it was for you. I've known people who were raised up in a Christian environment (or near it) so they called themselves Christian until they decided that they weren't. It didn't seem like a big switch the way they described it, because they were never really invested in Christianity. They had parents that were a certain denomination but the person haven't gone to church for years, and at some point showed more interest in a different spiritual philosophy. So they eventually stopped identifying themselves as Christian, and started identifying themselves as Buddhist, pagan, Wiccan, or something else. I shouldn't assume your turning away from your faith was in a similar manner, but the way you've told your past experiences, it sounded like you faced some doubt about God, and then just moved on away from your faith.

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I'm not trying to play you, or play the man instead of the arguments. I'm aware of the two large perspectives of how the world works, and how easily it is to see the world function without knowing or acknowledging God in it; as well as how easy it is to see the world function with God, a god, or some unforeseen plan involved. However after that first initial viewpoint of the world changes quite a bit about how we see the world we live in. A paradigm shift of what we are receptive to in our observations. Confirmation bias to give credit to something that does not need it in my opinion is on the same boat as a skeptical bias, where no proof is ever really proof. So yes this is a point I was trying to make.

Saying that you hold this doubting bias is in my opinion no more slanderous then your calling me indoctrinated, or removing my experiences and arguments with a wave of the hand "I've been there and I was exactly like you" argument. But it seems you've taken this as an insult, so for that I am sorry. Unless you really want to see where I'm drawing this conclusion of doubting bias from in your words, I'll leave the point alone. There are many other points to address. In return though I ask that you refrain from calling me indoctrinated, or that you were exactly like me. Because honestly, you don't have any idea about my life to know one way or another.

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Tell me that you've had an injury at a young age that has stayed with you throughout your life, that you see the kindness of others as a great thing because it's the only chance you've got to make it in a world where survival of the fittest is the basic tenet of the working world. Or even in the scholastic realms of college and higher learning. Because of a simple handicap on the level of speed I can do things, I am more aware of the kindness handed out to me when I needed it. I've seen this when people have done this, and I've seen this when God lessened my load for a period of time in a stressful time, even dropped a few job opportunities I wasn't aware to look for in my lap.

Yes I give God credit for that, among many other things I give Him credit for. But the point is that unless you know my life, you have no place to judge your life to mine, nor to judge it as indoctrinated. I ask you to refrain from both of those arguments as I see it as a slap in the face to me. And I will do the same and refrain from speaking on my conclusions of your biases.

I hope this sounds fair to you. Tomorrow or a different day I'll try to address a different point. I was never trying to "play the man."

To Bush Bunny. What things are you referring to that you think I'm unsure about? It's a bit of a vague statement, but it sounds like you mean it towards at least one specific thing.

If your referring to something that can be researched I'm at a loss for the topic you mean. If you mean unsure of the future, then yes I can say I am unsure about that, but there's no way to look into it to cure the unsureness. I'm unsure about the future due to the harshness expressed in the world and due to failures and weaknesses that
I can't seem to get around yet. It's not a faith thing, nor is it a research thing to look into. So please clarify what you mean.

BB....No doubt sometimes Churches and believers do good things in the community. The problem is the agenda that lies underneath.

When I help somebody I don't have an agenda.

Believers want to be seen by Jesus as good people. Many have the underlying agenda of conversion of the people who they assist.

So they give with an impure heart.

But it gets worse.

They are also lying to the people to gain that conversion. They use a mix of Baby Jesus stories, lies, fear and indoctrination to manipulate the person they supposedly wanted to help from the goodness of their heart.

Can you call yourself good when you manipulate and lie to people to trick them whilst helping? Of course NOT!

But I have great news regarding the power of prayer.

I prayed that God, if it be his will, give me the power to be raised off the ground. I sat there contemplating and focusing and suddenly I levitated off the ground. There I was in the middle of the lawn 12 inches off the ground.

Believe me? Of course that didn't happen.

OMG! I then went outside and saw a ladder and it raised me off the ground. Josephus, that ladder was like a prothesis for a disabled person. Praise the Lord...lmao

From now on every time I see a ladder I will think of you Josephus and how God provided the ladder for me in my hour of need....lmao

Imagine if I'd been able to levitate? Would the believers here have wanted to see proof? Of course they would have!

That is why I asked you believers to cure the amputated limbs of amputees and all the crippled people in the world through your faith and prayer.

You wouldn't have accepted me just saying I did it and rightly so.

That is why we don't believe you saying your prayers are answered.

Some of us are just a little more scientific and intelligent as to believe fairy tales about talking snakes.

No cures = You having little or no faith - Just ask Jesus!