Emperor,

The declines were there before the Howard laws and they cannot be shewn to have had an effect.

"...it's not a ban on political donations by Australia's public enemies that is required, it's public exposure of their money trail."

Definitely and the sooner the better; have you got any links that you can post shewing where the Greens get their money from?

Dear Is Mise,

You really are a clown aren't you.

You had claimed; “Utter rot, there is no such correlation; gun homicides and suicides were falling at a steady rate before 1996 and continue to fall at a steady rate. There are now more guns in Australia than before the buyback.”

I have shown you were puling figures out of your arse as usual. The figures for Victoria expressly show that as the saturation of weapons in this country has increased, since the low after the gun buyback scheme, there has been a corresponding rise in gun crime including double the rate of homicides involving a gun.

Having your argument shot to flames you then try to deflect.

You really need to just stop and admit you are prepared to see more Australians dead from shootings so you can get to enjoy fewer restrictions on your hobby. Further you want 95% of our homes weaponised and are happy to live with the consequences. Good luck sleeping at nights.

Selfish, selfish man.

Steele,

"I have shown you were puling figures out of your arse as usual. The figures for Victoria expressly show that as the saturation of weapons in this country has increased, since the low after the gun buyback scheme, there has been a corresponding rise in gun crime including double the rate of homicides involving a gun."

Give some verifiable references and you might be taken seriously.

"....Further you want 95% of our homes weaponised and are happy to live with the consequences. Good luck sleeping at nights."

Where have I ever said that?

I don't have trouble sleeping at nights apart from waking for a bit of bladder relief; happens to most of us in old age.

Dear Is Mise,

There you go;

http://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/crime-statistics/historical-crime-data/victoria-police-crime-statistics-publications-and-tables

Knock yourself out.

Steele,

Followed your link and below are the parts that seem most pertinent,

"Crime Statistics
2013/2014 [latest available]

Armed robberies accounted for 1,254 (48.5%) of all robberies in 2013/14, a decrease of 13.3% since
2012/13. The most common weapon used in armed robberies was a knife (52.4%).
10.7% of all weapons used in robberies were a firearm (including imitation firearms), a decrease of 5.2%.

The number of aggravated burglaries offences recorded decreased by 2.9% in 2013/14, as did residential
burglaries down 1.3%. The number of aggravated burglaries involving weapons or injuries decreased by
2.7% in 2013/14, and accounted for 24.1% of aggravated burglaries.

Weapons/explosives offences increased by 13.0% from 2012/13.
[page 6]

Despite the increase in recorded offences, as a rate per 100,000 population Victoria has continued to see a
decline over the past decade. While the overall crime rate increased 3.7% between 2012/13 to 2013/14, the
rate has decreased 1.6% since 2004/05.[page 7]"

Note: "10.7% of all weapons
used in robberies were a firearm (including imitation firearms), a decrease of 5.2%."

Note those words, "DECLINE" and "DECREASE", and not all of them were real guns'

So I haven't knocked myself out but I am feeling a little sorry.....for you.

//The mantra "More guns mean more crime"
is a stupid statement, and just unprovable as "More guns means less crime"//

Well done, Mr. Iceberg lettuce! One successfully destroyed strawman.

I still don't recall claiming that "More guns mean more crime" (probably because I didn't claim that). More guns means more shooting. Some of it will be harmless, legal shooting at clay pigeons and so forth. Some of it will be fatal or disabling accidents, and some will be suicides - both perfectly legal, but still Bad Things. And some will be gun violence: assaults, GBH, homicide, mass shootings etc. - things that are generally (though not necessarily) illegal and definitely Bad Things.

But if the rise in those types of crime is compensated for by a decrease in other types of crime, the overall crime rate will fall.

//and there hasn't been a lucid observation on:

"Salt Lake City, Utah, teacher Kasey Hansen said the idea to arm herself in school//

More fool the Utah state leglistaure. It's a really bad idea to let teachers go arming themselves, there's way too much potential for things to go horribly wrong.

I've known teachers to completely lose it in the face of provocation from their students. One of the teachers at my school had a nervous breakdown in the classroom. Can you imagine what would happen when a class full of Chads pushes a teacher over the edge, and that teacher happens to be carrying a gun? I can. I have to say that I don't think this one is highly probable; most teachers I know are patient people with excellent impulse control. But it's still a dangerous possibility.