Alt Rave,

So are you suggesting that Aboriginal people can't be both Aboriginal and Australian, or shouldn't be ? Or are you suggesting that Aboriginality is some sort of fiction, a way to get money from governments ? That whoever claims to be Aboriginal, is just lying, cheating and stealing ? Unless they are of the full descent ? And that there is no such thing as identity ?

IF you are suggesting that Indigenous people only claim to be so in order to get benefits, I would suggest that only people in need of benefits should get them, regardless: benefits should be distributed on the basis of need. But that really is another issue. Indigenous people are still Indigenous, rich or poor, affluent or in need. Or, in your view, they don't really exist, they shouldn't identify as such ? What would you propose in order to stop Indigenous people from identifying as Indigenous, IF you were the Absolute Ruler ? Should such people be fined or jailed, or what ? Stop holding back, Alt Rave.

Joe

Loudmouth, what should we do with such people? You ask indirectly? We should ignore them. If they decide they want to 'identify' with a particular tree, they are more than welcome to do so. But don't expect me to believe you just because a tree once fell on your head and you decided to 'identify' yourself to trees. It really does annoy me and many others when someone finds a way of getting away with something at the expense of others and the others are powerless to right the wrong. You can 'identify' the shite out of whatever you like, as long as they admit that they are Australian and have no more rights over other Australians. When you can admit that and relinquish all the money and benefits they all enjoy, then I will listen and even accept your argument about 'identity'. Until then all the non-authentic abo's calling themselves abo's must be challenged and brought to task for their lying. As I have already said an Elder has already warned these people and it was he who called them wanabees. Now are you going to argue with a very high standing Elder? I don't think so. So we don't accept this 'identity' angle and anyone who is not a 'pure blood' abo is not an abo! So all you quarter, half, fifty three cast, piss off do as YOUR Elder has stated and stop ripping the system off, or is it , stop ripping us off.

Alt Rave,

So are you saying that Indigenous people can identify as Indigenous if they like ? No fees, no jailing ? So how is it any of your business then, apart from having a limited opinion on the matter ?

And yes, Indigenous people can identify as Indigenous AND be Australian by nationality. You are agreeing with that ? Well, at least, we've got somewhere.

Joe

No loudmouth, we are not in agreement at all. I'll say it again, if you are of mixed parentage, you are not an abo! Your 'identity' means nothing! It is a word, that's all. The abo's went looking for a way to con money out of the system/us, and gain sympathy for their cause and so thought this word is as vague as it gets so we can use it and no one will question us. They figured, all they have to do, even if their as white as an albino, is to say that I have abo blood, fifteen generations ago, therefore I can 'identify' as being an abo? You moron, what about the fifteen other nationalities 'in your blood' along the way? Oh, wait no can't mention any of them because I can't scam money and benefits and preferential treatment. Where-as by saying I 'identify' with my abo ancestor and BINGO! I'm in. You still have not answered my question about the Elder calling these many casts, wanabees. Wanna have a go at answering that one. I haven't chased it up again but now I think I'll give it a go and try to find it on You Tube. Oh and if you reply, you'd better answer my questions or I will bag you and your cred. Just to be clear.

Alt Rave,

Yes, of course, there are non-Indigenous people who manage to claim Indigenous status (identity) in order to gain benefits - I suspect quite a few in top management positions. And yes, there are people who have 'discovered' that they have Indigenous ancestry relatively late in life, i.e. in the teens and beyond: if I were Absolute Ruler, I would require them to forgo any special benefits, such aster re, for an equal length of time, while they did an 'apprenticeship' n Indigeneity. But I'm not, and neither are you, thankfully.

As for your Elder, he, like you and I, has opinions which should be considered, but they're just his opinions, he may have no greater authority to decide who is, and who isn't, Indigenous than you or I, subject to the exceptions in that first paragraph.

One problem with your neat, mathematical differentiation of who is, and who isn't, Indigenous, apart from the obvious point that it's really none of your business, is that Indigenous people - particularly in the 'south', i.e. the settled areas rather than the pastoral and unusable areas of Australia, they may not know any non-Indigenous relations, or forebears: inter-mixing may have occurred many generations ago, and Indigenous mixed-ancestry people have been inter-marrying with other Indigenous mixed-ancestry ever since, and building little worlds of similarly Indigenous people. That may be changing rapidly these days, with 90 % of Indigenous people in urban, mainly metropolitan areas, marrying non-Indigenous people.

So, even now, the great majority of people who 'southern' Indigenous people mix with and know about, are similarly Indigenous. And they are aware of Johnnie-come-latelys and phony Blackfellas, many of whom rely on the 'Stolen Generation' narrative to insert themselves into Indigenous affairs. How many proven cases of SG so far ? One.

[TBC]

[continued]

Older Indigenous people usually have a fairly detailed knowledge of their genealogy and, given that people are usually very interested in linking to any stranger by identifying genealogical connections, they are usually quite aware of who they CAN'T place. Yes, many organisations would 'sign anybody up' who walks through the door. But none of that detracts from the genuinely Indigenous people, it only highlights the nefarious activities of non-Indigenous people looking for an easy way into positions and benefits, as they see them.

I hope this answers your questions.

Joe