Josephus, I hear you. I think I've been going at this all wrong. I have been trying to convince people of something they will never admit to.

I now realise that logic and reason is not practiced in many quarters. That can apply to all of us, but ultimately we have to step back and do an independent analysis free from emotion.

This SSM thing is all about emotion. In my case I have a healthy loathing for such people as that maggot Mazda whats her face.

Her fame is based solely on political correctness as there is no substance to her 'literary genius'. She is just another arrogant maggot with absolutely no value to society outside of her own mind.

The weak and the gutless attach themselves to these lost causes and everyone goes along for the media ride, saying, 'look at moy, look at moy'.

Anyway, we believe in what we believe in, and we know we're right because they're wrong. We'll just have to leave them talking to mirrors and get on with the show.

Paul,

"Issy, the folly of war, and the actions of fools, go hand in hand!"

Can't you find a reference to back your claim?

The 'folly of war' is amply illustrated in a comparison of the two Koreas, on the one hand, we have a prosperous South Korea and on the other a repressive Communist regime in North Korea.
Had the UN not acted then the whole of Korea would be Communist.

Pity there, Paul, they missed out on a Greens' utopia.

Of course you’re not, ALTRAV.

<<… I am under no contract to explain to you or anyone else my reasons ...>>

But you provided reasoning which did not contain enough detail to support your position. I am, therefore, entitled to request further detail. If you choose not to provide that, then that is your prerogative. However, your continued lack of detail, sound reasoning, and evidence for your claims only helps to support my suspicion that you have none.

No response is still a response, and I’m happy enough with that.

<<It follows that the reasoning you give, you promote as being the correct one.>>

Of course, but the question remains: Why do you think that is the correct one? Why is the difference between homosexual couples and heterosexual couples a reason to deny the former the right to marry?

<<… there are a large number of people out there who disagree with you.>>

Sure, but that doesn’t mean that you are or could be right, though, and suggesting otherwise is a fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

<<We don't have an explanation that you will accept ...>>

Give me an argument that is rational, and I will accept it and concede that your opposition to same-sex marriage has at least some validity.

<<You seem to put a lot of weight on proof.>>

More so evidence, but, yeah. Why wouldn’t I? The alternative is gullibility or subjective emotions.

<<So much of your proof is open to question.>>

All of it is. Nothing is immune to questioning. Not even your ‘Massachusetts’ hyperbole.

<<Proof and truth are not the same, as you yourself have suggested.>>

Correct. Proof demonstrates the truth, whereas the truth just is. I have not suggested otherwise.

<<... we have to step back and do an independent analysis free from emotion.>>

Ha! This coming from the one who just said, “…sometimes I just don't like something.”

<<I now realise that logic and reason is not practiced in many quarters.>>

You have provided no logic or sound reasoning. In fact, you have studiously avoided doing so; even reminding me that it's your right not to.

Issy, the end justifies the means. When war is waged, it is always for the most noble of causes, well for our side that is, the enemy are the bad guys. You hold on to your belief that the proxy war in Korea, between the United States and the Soviet Union, which resulted in the deaths of 1.6 million people was totally justified to "stop communism".

"Can't you find a reference to back your claim?" Yes, 1,600,000 dead human beings!

So the facts are revealed Paul would rather live in North Korea under communism than the South under democratic freedom.

Paul,

You claimed that:

"Conscription in WWI
Fools going off to fight the Korean police action
The Vietnam War"

divided the Nation more than SSM, I don't dispute 1 and 3, but your assertion on Korea is a falsehood or is born of ignorance.

So give a reference, please.