It's good to have this Forum where we can debate and discuss. I agree with Philo, but can also see where others are coming from. It is unfortunate that the period of the English Enlightenment, with its subsequent developments of Rationalism, Materialism and Positivism, has made us choose either Science or Religion as mutually exclusive ideologies and dogmas. God is the Great Scientist and Mathematician - all things can eventually be reduced to Mathematics. I know what I mean by this Reductionism, but am hoping that it will contribute to another line of thinking in this debate. Faith and Hope are not mutually exclusive from Science. An article in TIME magazine revealed scientific research which strongly supports the notion that our brains are "hardwired" to believe in "a Supreme Being". This certainly goes beyond the bounds of Darwinian Evolution. I have drafted for my own purposes an essay which "proves" that the statistical probability of Evolution by Natural Selection is so infinitismal that Darwin was wrong. So is Richard Dawkins and Stephen Jay Gould, who have antipathy and antagonism towards each other, even though both are Evolutionists. Disagree, but be kind to each other. The freewill to be kind to each separates us from the beasts.

Hi teddles,
Ever heard of "free speach"? The beast of which you speak, is born within us, it takes nothing to arouse one's inner beast, commonly seen throughout these threads, one only has to skim through them to pick-up sarcasm, wit, dryness, belittlement, slyness and all the other little quirks we are born with. Now and again some half-wit will endeavour to rub one of us up the wrong way and one is guaranteed to get an answer in return they will not like, this we call "tough".
When we depart this world, we hopefully do not take this luggage with us, it's depressing and downright ornery and doubt one will be appreciated if one arrives in "paradise" with an attitude.
So, it's good to "vent" once in a while.

Spanky. Spanky. Spanky. Having been a research assistant to a psychologist since 1992, having taught communications for 10 years (amongst other things), having studied at both TAFE and post-graduate level at university, having been a business executive and a management consultant, having been a lay Christian minister since 1974, and with an IQ of 150 (yes, I am well aware of all the problems associated with the validity, use, and abuse of IQ tests) which places me in approximately the top 2% of the Anglo-Celtic population of First World Countries in terms of general cognitive ability, I have learned to separate how people communicate "through" their "perception filters" and how to use various techniques, including applied semiotics, to get to the substantive content of what it is they are trying to express. I am well aware of the various communication styles posters to this Forum have used, but I don't care. I want to know what they think and how they feel on this issue. The true philosopher and religious practitioner know that this mortal life is a journey, with those obtaining wisdom taking "rest-stops" along the way to consolidate and evaluate what they have learnt, then scaffolding forward from a new foundation. The antitheist and skeptic often ridicule, despise, and attempt to humiliate those with any interest in the supranatural/metaphysical, the "real" atheist chooses, for various reasons, to not want to believe in the supranatural, and the agnostic believes something bigger than ourselves exists, but isn't sure what he/she/it is. Ideology and dogma have no tolerance for different points of view. At least we're all still communicating.

Teddles,teddles, teddles,
G'day mate! Glad to see people do have some things in common, although I am not an assistant, but a full blown clinical psychologist and also teach at Uni. Although not really ever indulged too much into religion, I get by and sometimes, due to my position in life, I not only have to listen to others, but read into every thing that is said to me, even via this thread.
Yes, I have already read you and have deduced quite a lot from your comment. ('nuff said on this matter)
Getting back to the point of reincarnation, previously hovered on in this thread, I think it not a bad omen to consider the prospects of coming back and now and again having a flash of memory as if been in a particular place before. It can however cause mental trauma and eventually, breakdown, if looked into more than need be. The cases I have spoken about in this thread, are in fact cases that I myself have dealt with and there are some real eye openers.
Ever seen someone who continuously scratches behind their ears? I was expecting the person to lift a leg against my leather sofa!

WOW...I'm in hallowed company :) Highly educated folks who have done a lot of study

I studied at Bible college for 3 yrs, included anthropology and inductive study methods.. then went to Borneo as a missionary where I spent 8 yrs or so.. that... was the experience and education of and for a lifetime.

ANECDOTE. When I first arrived, I was sent to a remote village in the highlands for orientation. I didn't have a clue what was going on, and in my innocence and enthusiasm to learn the local lingo, I went to see a teacher who spoke good english. On the way to his house, I noticed a trail of blood... when I arrived there were people milling around. I asked where is 'Tony' and he was pointed out. I went and introduced myself, and asked how to say 'How are you' in his language.
He was gracious and helpful. I later found out the trail of blood was from his wife who had been miscarrying, and who's life hung in the balance. She was medivaced out and survived. I also met some 'Punan' jungle nomads at that time. Quite an experience.

TOPIC. Firstly, Spanky, its wonderful for you to open up this topic, and also your own heart on the matter.
Clearly, we all have this ache in our souls for "what's it all about"? As Solomon said once:

He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke
than to listen to the song of fools.

and

"even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!"


So, there are many voices on this subject, lets try to filter out the fools from the wise.

MESSAGE TO ALL.... Puh-LEASE.. have a read of Ecclesiastes. You will find all your thoughts echo'd there..and a final conclusion.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&chapter=1&version=31

My own thought? Heb 12:2
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith"

Boaz,good to have you back!
Thats what it's all about folks...Faith.
No matter where one gets his or her beliefs, faith in ones self, faith in whatever you are about to endeavour, faith is part of ones own personal achievement, faith lends strength to attain goals you a only dreamed of achieving.
Believe in yourself, strive for the better, this is where we as humans actually make contact with our inner beings, as if talking to yourself, previously looked upon as a sign of insanity.
Would you imagine taking this "faith" with you, when departing? will it be useful on the other side?