The Forum > General Discussion > My plea to fellow Muslims: you must renounce terror.
My plea to fellow Muslims: you must renounce terror.
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Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 8:39:07 AM
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Boaz and Steve,
Your attention is drawn to opinion by Tanveer Ahmed in todays OZ. Posted by Banjo, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 9:43:30 AM
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Thanks Banjo,
For those who are interested here is a link. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,22005648-7583,00.html Many people conflate attacks on Islam with racism. If you are antipathetic to the religion of Islam, if you are an "Islamo-phobe," then you are a "racist." I think we need to knock that one firmly on the head. Criticism of Islam is no more racist than criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. Of course many racists hide behind attacks on Islam just as many anti-Semites hide behind attacks on Israel. But that fact should not be permitted to shut down debate about the nature of Islam, Zionism or any other belief system or ideology. Muslim attempts to equate Islamo-phobia with anti-Semitism are piffle. Since 1879 "anti-Semite" has been used to describe someone who hates Jews for being Jews, for belonging to the ethnicity or tribe of Jews. It has nothing to do with the practice of Judaism. Many of those who died in Hitler's death camps were actually Christians who had Jewish ancestors. One Jewish grandparent was often enough to have you sent to the gas chamber even though the grandparent may have converted to Christianity. Anti-Arab or anti-Pakistani or anti-dark-skinned people is akin to anti-Semitism. It is racism. Islamo-phobia is akin to "Judaeo-phobia," an antipathy to the religion of Judaism. This is the important paragraph in Tanveer Ahmed's article: "But with hindsight, I can see that what we now call extremism was virtually the norm in the community I grew up in. It was completely normal to view Jews as evil and responsible for the ills of the world. It was normal to see the liberal society around us as morally corrupt, its stains to be avoided at all costs. It was normal to see white girls as cheap and easy and to see the ideal of femininity as its antithesis. These views have been pushed to more private, personal spheres amid the present scrutiny of Muslim communities. Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 2:52:45 PM
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""But with hindsight, I can see that what we now call extremism was virtually the norm in the community I grew up in. It was completely normal to view Jews as evil and responsible for the ills of the world. It was normal to see the liberal society around us as morally corrupt, its stains to be avoided at all costs. It was normal to see white girls as cheap and easy and to see the ideal of femininity as its antithesis. These views have been pushed to more private, personal spheres amid the present scrutiny of Muslim communities."
This is the standard view of the GOP Republican Base in the United States. Your blind hate of Islam and Muslims is clouding your minds. Posted by Steel, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 3:51:39 PM
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I read Tanveer 'article and he might have a point but it also contains factual and historical errors:
- He referred to the community where he grew up as a blanket to all Muslims. I don't think European Muslims like in countries like Turkey grew up with same teachings even though most are practising. - He also blurred the line between traditional Islam and political Islam (re position on Jews), ignoring that Jews lived safely in Muslim countries for the last 14 centuries and prior to the formation of Israel. 'Hating jews' is a political islam that appeared post 1940s. - Although he admits he does not understand Islamic theology, he suddenly makes a judgement call " At its core, Islam is deeply sceptical of the idea of a secular state" which is a Shiite understanding of Islam. 90% of Muslims (Sunnis, Mystics, etc..) do not share this view. The proof is not only secular muslim countries like Turkey, but Muslims living for decades and generattions in Western and eastern secular countries. - He then dwells on radical pakistani ignoring that dozens of modern Islamic thinkers like Fethullah Gulen and Amr Khaled who already influenced tens of millions. Peace, Posted by Fellow_Human, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 5:04:07 PM
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Steel,
I do not hate Muslims. I do not have a "blind hate" of Islam. I have an INFORMED aversion to Islam. I really don't give a rodent's rectum what the "GOP Republican Base in the United States" thinks. I notice you have avoided my questions. In your view: Was 7 / 7 Justified? (Yes / No) Were the recent weekend attempted car bombings justified? (Yes / No) F_H wrote: "ignoring that Jews lived safely in Muslim countries for the last 14 centuries" Sorry F-H, This is a politically correct myth. The best that can be said is that Jews in Dar-ul-Islam did not suffer more than Christians. Religious minorities did not fare well in either Christendom or Dar-ul-Islam before the advent of secular democracy. For data on how Muslims view Jews today, and how almost everybody views everybody else, see: http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248 Here's Andrew Alderson and Miles Goslett in the Sunday Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/24/nternet124.xml Excerpts: Speaking with a heavy middle eastern accent, Bakri responds: "Salman Rushdie, no doubt what he did was an apostasy… not because he get knighthood but because he insulted the honour of the prophet Mohammed (with his book The Satanic Verses)… He is murtadd (a traitor for rejecting Islam) anyway so there isn't any need for a new fatwa… People like him deserve to get the capital punishment." …. "There is an unchallenged, unreported Islamist underworld in the UK in which talk of jihad, bombings, stabbings, killings and executions is usual," he [Ed Husain] warned recently. "Rhetoric is an indication of a certain mindset and, I think, the prelude to terror. Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 3 July 2007 9:52:45 PM
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The question of Muslim inbreeding MAY not be a furphee. Some zoologists claim to have uncovered evidence that even a slight amount of inbreeding can cause problems.
See for example: Too close for comfort, New Scientist, 18 October 2003
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18024175.100-too-close-for-comfort.html
You need to remember that in some societies, mostly but not all Muslim, cousin marriage has been the norm for centuries. Some families have married nobody but cousins for generations. This is a degree of inbreeding unknown in modern Western societies.
Unfortunately researching the long term effects of cousin marriage is one of those politically incorrect topics for which funding is hard to obtain.
I do not know whether any of the recent spate of suicide bombers in the UK come from such inbred families.
Rache, the British royal family is not as inbred as many Pakistani families. I suspect we must look elsewhere for the cause of Charles' feeble-mindedness.