Dear Josephus,

Ebenezer Church is not Australia's oldest church. It is Australia's oldest surviving church. Australia's oldest church is a mud brick structure that doubled as a schoolhouse and was built in 1793. St Philips Anglican church, was constructed five years after the arrival of the First Fleet.

Neither structure is still standing but both predate Ebenezer Church.

http://www.allthingswritten.com.au/site/index.php/blog/history/australia-s-oldest-church/ mentions all three churches.

Maybe that is all Guy Rundle had to offer.

But he, his colleagues and Crikey are dead men walking as the digital revolution gathers even more pace.

If the government is smart (it isn't), it would be flogging off most of the ABC and SBS because very, very, soon it will all be a forgotten departure station for all but grannies who shock themselves that they can sometimes snoop on their grandchildren on Faceache (sry, my word for it).

ATM there will be others here who like me who are reflecting on their digital information/learning/linking and are convinced that the boat has already sailed and we must play catch up, urgently. I know I am not making anywhere near optimal use of what is available that caters for my needs, let alone have any sight of what is emerging.

Crikey? Should be relegated to the digital museum now and that is years too late.

Just some idle thoughts. Shouldn't affect the old dears and ABC luvvies around here. They can still have their daily time-occupying rituals, such as Christian baiting.

The above post should have been addressed to Joe (Loudmouth). A brew called and I was delayed.

Hi Joe,
"Yes, I'm also trying to understand how a supposedly Left can suck up to the extreme, conservative Right ? Surely they're not proposing that, somehow, Islam is 'progressive'?"

When a doctor treats a patient, and cures that patient would it be fair to look at the persons religion and then accuse the doctor of sucking up to that religion. I think not. Many of us have sympathy for the plight of refugees today, and the inescapable fact is many of those refugees are Muslim, not all but many, some are Christian. One is not dependent on the other to be a refugee, no more that it was the case after WWII that there were those who had great concern for European refugees, were they accused of sucking up to Christianity? You have no proof of what you say is the case at all.

Leoj is simply a rapid Hansonite with an axe to grind, Like his bigoted racists leader Hanson he will try any erroneous argument to discredit Progressives. Joe, why would anyone want to be tared with that dirty brush, except maybe Leoj.

Paul1405,

Everyone who disagrees with you gets cat-called something. That is par for the course.

However, you are finally admitting what you were avoiding elsewhere [Immigration thread], which is the Greens 'Open Door' immigration 'policy'. The Greens are a fake environmental party. They are fake progressives too.

Hi Paul,

You're right, we shouldn't discriminate against migrants and genuine refugees (you see where this is going). But by the same guidelines, we should be just as strict with illegal immigrants, those who can pay, whether they are Sri Lankan, Sudanese or Iranian - whether they are Buddhist, Christian or Muslim: if they are breaking the law by trying to get into Australia illegally, they should be treated equally.

I'm sure you would agree :)

In case you wish to try the compassion angle, think of those 300,000 Africans in that desert camp in northern Kenya, mostly Sudanese, with barely a pot to piss in, let alone ten thousand dollars plus air-fare to Djakarta. I was talking to a lovely African lady on the bus, who had been in a camp in west Africa for eighteen years. We were squeezed up pretty close on the bus (not that I was complaining), and I broke the ice by commenting that if we got much closer, we would have to get married. She had a lovely full-throated, out-loud laugh.

More Africans please !

Cheers,

Joe

PS. And more Maori of course ! What a fantastic mixture Australia is becoming