davif f, "Regarding the Muslim treatment of women we ignore the fact that it’s only in recent history that women in our society have the vote and control of their property"

You lost it early, channelling Yassmin Abdel-Magiedas as in, 'Islam is the most feminist religion'. Yeah, for sure :(

I have no interest in defending any religion. The history is irrelevant. Anyway, most of that verbiage is only intended as a clumsy segue to annoying the 'other side', Christians, and is wasted on me.

It is the practical here and now that needs discussion, see the thread title.

I just want to understand why the hell the 'Progressives' cosy up to Islam.

Is it the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' malarkey, seasoned with a shared affection for totalitarianism? As virtue signalling it is poorly directed and unconvincing. Islam is not really your friend if you are Left.

Have the chickens been coming home to roost and the game is up? What do you have to say about that article?

Hi David,

Oooooooo ! " ..... only the Church of England was recognised in the early settlement of Australia."

Not in South Australia: There were all manner of church groups here from the earliest: that's probably why Adelaide was called the city of churches, not meaning 'many church buildings', but 'many denominations and sects'.

The Lutherans played a very big part in SA's history, all through the Hills and the Barossa, and in their forming of Aboriginal missions in the hardest parts of the settled areas. The Catholic presence was relatively small (no convicts in SA, after all), probably they were outnumbered by Baptists and Methodists and Free-Thinkers of all sorts. Often churches would combine on developing projects and Aboriginal missions, and share church space.

I agree, as an atheist, that Christians should recognise their own failings, as we all should. But as well, the rest of us should recognise their (sometimes) good intentions and achievements.

Cheers,

Joe

Dear leoj,

I see no need to cosy up to Islam nor do many others. One can set up a straw man as I believe the article has done. Islam has promoted violence and is still in their Dark Ages.

However, the article is an attempt to draw lines. One of the comments of Jesus which I think is a very bad one is, "Whoever is not with me is against me." I am no more against Islam than I am against Christianity. Both are superstitions. However, implicit in the article is the idea that one must be for one superstition or the other.

Hi Leo,

"I just want to understand why the hell the 'Progressives' cosy up to Islam.

"Is it the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' malarkey, seasoned with a shared affection for totalitarianism? As virtue signalling it is poorly directed and unconvincing. Islam is not really your friend if you are Left."

Yes, I'm also trying to understand how a supposedly Left can suck up to the extreme, conservative Right ? Surely they're not proposing that, somehow, Islam is 'progressive' ? Don't they have the wits to grasp that Islam is a 'perfect' religion, i.e. the ideal religion for reactionaries, it has all the answers to keep people in their place, and that it is the ideal religion for those who seek absolute power ? And who have not the slightest concern for the 'people' ?

I was raised, I think, on a different 'Left': one which required the constant questioning of who and what and why, and which most certainly wouldn't have sucked up to reactionaries, even if they were sincere and devout. After all, we're talking about people who - for all I know - still believe the sun goes around the earth. The flat earth.

What's going on in the 'Left' ? Guy Rundle, a doyen of the rat-bag CPA/SPA/Trot/Maoist 'Left', has just published an article in praise (so it seemed) of Islam, certainly of Yassmin Abdel-Magied. Maybe I've got him wrong ?

https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/04/28/attack-on-abdel-magied-for-anzac-comments-is-cowardly/

How does anyone on the 'Left' parse that ? Amazing.

Let's admit it: there is no Left in Australia any more. Crack-pot anarchists, yes; Trotskyites, yes; hangers-on of the old CPA/SPA, yes; a myriad of splinter groups, yes. Perhaps even some old Maoists :) But how come they are so intellectually lazy that they all seem happy to fight the battles of yesterday ? And the day before yesterday ? Do they think there's a god, called Marx, who will whip them up to Heaven if they keep prattling on about realities which were already fading in the nineteenth century ? You've each only got one life, comrades, don't waste it.

Joe

Dear Loudmouth,

South Australia was settled later. During the first 25 years of settlement the only churches allowed were Anglican and the only clergymen allowed were chaplains of the British armed forces. Read "Church and State" by Tom Frame for details.

EBENEZER CHURCH
Parish of Ebenezer Pitt Town
Sharing our Christian Heritage
Ebenezer Church:
Is Australia’s oldest church, est. 1809 at Ebenezer, NSW
Was the first non-conformist then Presbyterian Church in Australia
Was a pioneer in education in the colony, beginning a school in 1810. The church is the oldest extant school building in Australia.
The Coromandel covenantors arrived in Sydney in 1802 and began as pioneer farmers on the Hawkesbury at Portland Head in 1803.
After five years of worship in the open air and in the homes of Dr Arndell and Owen Cavanough they, with seven other families, covenanted on the 22 nd September 1808. They formed the ‘Society for the Propagation of Christian Knowledge and the Instruction of Youth’ and agreed to build a church and school and to call a minister to facilitate their faith.