Hi Toni,

I'm not asserting anything, I've simply been persuaded by posters here that the halal symbol on products that one buys in supermarkets means that it has been halal-certified, which means - since I don't suppose that it's done for free - that companies have paid the shake-down money to one or more of those 33 halal certification bodies so that they can get their products on shelves, make sales and stay in business.

You can always check, Toni, for products which have not been halal-certified. As for companies passing on the cots, I'm presuming that production companies pass on the cost of halal-certification to retailers, who pass on the cost to us. Maybe I'm wrong ? It doesn't happen like that ?

Joe

I suspect, Joe, that squeezing any evidence out of you on this subject will be like trying to get blood out of a stone. So to satisfy my own curiosity, I had a quick survey of my pantry. It's really only certain varieties of meat (because the method of slaughter determines whether it is haram or halal) and processed foods (because they might contain haram ingredients) that require certification. I've got no meat in the original packaging today, but there are plenty of dry goods in the pantry. The results are as follows:

Arnott's Original Tim-Tams: not halal certified.
Doritos Corn Chips: not halal certified.
Old El Paso Taco Kit: not halal certified.
Campbells Condensed Soup, various flavours: not halal certified.
Holbrook's Worcestershire Sauce: not halal certified, but apparently it does come in BPA free packaging, so that's nice to know.
Tandaco Dry Yeast Sachets: not halal certified. I don't know if yeast is something that really needs certification.
Masterfoods Condiments, various flavours: not halal certified.
Helga's Bread, various flavours: not halal certified.

At this point I gave up. I'd rather been hoping to find an exception to prove the rule, but none seemed forthcoming. Maybe you'll have more luck. Tomorrow I might go and peruse the meat aisle at Coles or Woolies to gather more evidence. A bit of first hand research sure beats relying on the credibility of bogans.

//shake-down money to one or more of those 33 halal certification bodies//

I don't know where you get this idea that halal certification bodies are some sort of criminal racket demanding shake-down money, Joe. Commerce is not really my cup of tea, but I'm under the vague impression that it's actually some sort of legal requirement for public companies to attempt to maximise profits. Even if that's a false belief, it's generally in the best interests of companies to maximise their profits. If the profit gained from expanding their market to Muslim consumers exceeds the costs of obtaining halal certification, why wouldn't they do it? Maybe I just don't understand capitalism properly.

I see halal certification as being a marketing cost. Companies pay a truck-load for advertising to increase their market share, just like they pay for halal certification to increase their market share. Are advertisers and PR companies racketeers demanding shake-down money, or just Muslims?

//As for companies passing on the cots, I'm presuming that production companies pass on the cost of halal-certification to retailers, who pass on the cost to us. Maybe I'm wrong ? It doesn't happen like that ?//

Maybe you are, but I doubt it. Of course they pass the costs on to us. But not all of them pay those costs in the first place.

Ton

Whatev

What else will you expect from them?Indonesia is a Muslim country and sharia law already in the country .

Hi Yuyutsu
You said;
"Improving one's character is essential because good habits help us eradicate this notion of being a limited body/mind, while bad/egoistic habits reinforce that notion, thus stand in the way of being able to relate with God directly."

Is this not a human concept, goodness/badness, even the religious devotees interpret the concept differently. Those in the world today waging a religious war in the name of their god would believe they are doing good in his eyes. Others equally religious would say no, their acts are inherently bad and not what god requires.
The existence of god seems to be irrelevant, all that is required is a belief in ones own goodness, which very much depends on the mindset of the individual as to what is good or bad. I would agree a belief in the existence of a god allows the believer to establish meaning in their life, as they strive to please god, and at same time obtaining a degree of self satisfaction through religious effort. People do receive spiritual comfort through religion, all forms of religion, I cannot deny that.
I believe what we are trying to do as human beings is give meaning to life, and a belief in god does help in that regard. If you believe in a god, it is essential you believe in an eternal afterlife, otherwise it would all be for naught.