“Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it, 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read, 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”

Abraham Lincoln, Speeches and Writings, 1832-1858

Thanks Steele. Interesting that he didn't consider women! All men are created equal (not counting women).

Reminds me of that old howler from an ancient biology textbook: 'Man is a mammal and suckles his young'. The source of this is actually Alfred Wallace 1889. Man: "the mode of suckling his young classes him as a mammal".

All men are created equal..YES.
I just won the tennis!

Russia has voted 90 to 3 to decriminalize domestic violence. Obviously women are not equal in Russia.

Paul1405:

“I sometimes find the comments on the forum, ... somewhat staid, predictable and lackluster at times.”

The point of the forum as I would see it is not to amuse. If you want to amuse others then there are far more appropriate places to do that. I think the forum is meant to be a place where people come to try and find a consensus about the best way to organise our society. Several situations are thrown up by nature and the act of living together which present problems. The way we approach these problems is a measure of our intelligence and humanity and our dignity as human beings.

Now more than at any time in history we need to be at our best. We need to be serious when seriousness is required and amusing when it is appropriate. Using a serious forum to get laughs cheapens that forum and sets back the path to solving the problems we have. It is not a contribution to be proud of.

“Australia, has a tradition of cynicism towards politicians, and that extrapolates to a practice of lampooning, and they are seen as fair game...”

Yes we do have that tradition but it is nothing to be proud of. We look like buffoons when we resort to that. Perhaps it is time for Australia to further grow up and contribute our best qualities to world debate.

I am not trying to get you to conform. I have absolutely no control over you so it would be pointless to try. However I am entitled to make an appeal to you to try and maintain the purpose of the forum. It is only my view of the purpose of the forum and maybe I am wrong but I am fairly certain that its purpose is not to amuse or to seek affirmation of one’s cleverness and to get cheap laughs. If that is what you truly want then I think you are in the wrong place. You should either go to the right place or stop doing what you are doing.

//Russia has voted 90 to 3 to decriminalize domestic violence. Obviously women are not equal in Russia.//

Yep... and your good mate Trump is best buddies with Putin. Then again, he also thinks it's acceptable to sexually assault women. Real charming bloke.

// I think the forum is meant to be a place where people come to try and find a consensus about the best way to organise our society.//

Nah, phanto, no disrespect but I think you've got the wrong end of the stick on this one. The forum is just a place to hang out and chew the fat; there is no right or wrong way to contribute as long you don't flagrantly violate the rules - some bending of the rules is allowed, because that's the Australian way. And there is no rule against taking the piss.

Pure rhetoric has long been accepted as part of political discussion, and satire, parody, irony and other forms of comic expression are also accepted as valid forms of political discussion. You may not appreciate Paul's humour, and let's face it, he's no Shaun Micallef... although he does occasionally get a grin out of me.

I appreciate your commitment to logical argument. You always speak clearly, concisely and effectively. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if people other people approach the conversation differently. Indeed, I welcome it. When all think alike, then nobody is really thinking at all.

//You should either go to the right place or stop doing what you are doing.//

I reckon he already is in the right place, and he should keep it up.