Paul,

No, I did NOT write that violence was ONLY a tribal thing, but that it was common in pretty much all traditional societies. And you know it. Why do you keep setting up straw men, only to 'cleverly' demolish them ?

Just on the statistics on violence: roughly half the Indigenous population is getting on with life, and probably has no higher domestic violence than the Australian average. So those stats are really relevant mainly for the remote, rural and outer suburbs welfare-dependent populations. Similarly with life expectancy: if Indigenous people, on average, live ten or fifteen years shorter lives, then double that gap for those welfare-oriented populations.

I'm certainly not meaning to 'point the finger' but to highlight that there is a tragic crisis in those populations, to which no decent person can shut their eyes. Lives are being blighted, lost. It may be all self-inflicted in a social sense, but there is absolutely no excuse for doing nothing. Even if colonialism is somehow partly the cause, so what ? Does that mean we can wash our hands of it all ? Absolutely not.

Without comprehensive action at the level of family and 'community', there will be a constant flow of young people into places like Don Dale. And I think we all know that.

Joe

Joe, we agree, we are not achieving the desired outcomes for all Aboriginal people, something a compassionate society would like to for all, aboriginal and non aboriginal. There are too many negatives, and the stats show that. In some areas there has been marked improvement, in others not so. All shades of government have tried to tackle the problem areas in recent times, with varying degrees if success.
I think there is no particular link in our modern European society between a recent connection to tribalism, and violence, although those with a close tribal connection, like those without, can demonstrate a propensity to somewhat the same degree of violence. I put this down to socio-economic conditions than anything else.
It was once put forward the notion that if you were able to transport a "caveman baby" through time to the present day. Give that child the advantages of a modern society, education etc, as an adult they would be indistinguishable from the rest of society. No such thing can be proved of course.

Hi Paul,

You suggest: "Joe, we agree, we are not achieving the desired outcomes for all Aboriginal people, something a compassionate society would like to for all, aboriginal and non aboriginal."

I slightly disagree: "we" may have roles to play, but primarily these are matters for those Aboriginal people affected themselves to resolve. That's what I've always thought 'self-determination' meant: that people work on and resolve their own problems.

Now clearly, that's not happening in remote 'communities' and it's becoming more and more likely that it won't happen. So what are the options ?

Marcia Langton has suggested more funding and more family and parental responsibility. I'm not sure what more funding would bring: funding seems to be already pretty extravagant. Better use of available funds, of course. But how to improve a sense of parental responsibility ? How to get across to very uneducated and very isolated people that they actually do have responsibilities for their kids' nurturing, it's not primarily the 'government's' responsibility, it's theirs. Not the grandmas' responsibility, but theirs, the parents.

But what if they are utterly useless, always on the grog, or drugs, or off gambling and beating the daylights out of each other ? Should another generation of those beautiful kids be sacrificed for our/somebody's convenience ? Should we just avert our eyes and focus only on the long-term outcomes, i.e. Don Dale ?

So we have to ask the very hard questions: are some young kids being so neglected that they, if they survive, are likely to be in the justice system, and illiterate and starved, before they are ten or twelve ?

What would we expect of the 'system' if these kids were white ? What overall fiduciary obligations does the 'system' have for ALL kids, even Black ones ?

Something's shameful, all right, and it's our lack of courage to make hard decisions.

Joe

Where to start?

The first priority must be to overcome the widespread corruption, wastage, misappropriation and theft that have blighted service delivery for donkey's years.

The big story that the Oz meeja and the Twitterati didn't run with, but why not?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-06/indigenous-organisations-investigated-allegations-fraud/7476570

<Indigenous organisations investigated amid allegations of fraud and corruption by senior figures

Allegations of fraud, shocking waste and corruption have rocked Indigenous-run organisations around the country.

There are 44 Indigenous organisations and programs currently being investigated by the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet's IAG Risk, Compliance and Integrity branch.

Four Corners has learned that, in some cases, executives and other trusted figures abused their positions and have been accused of misusing taxpayer funds.

The organisations under investigation receive hundreds of millions of dollars in grants from the federal and state governments.

The department has also examined alleged nepotism and conflicts of interest, as well broader failures of governance and accountability.

In one disturbing case uncovered by Four Corners, a former project manager contracted by the West Australian Department of Housing swindled approximately $3 million from the Indigenous community of Warmun in the Kimberley...>

Next question,

"What has prevented successive governments, federal and State, from doing just that when all have been regularly informed by their own (government) departments including their own auditors (eg the ANAO reports tabled in the federal parliament) of the corruption, fraud and wastage affecting hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars annually?".

The fraud doesn't stop with the siphoning off of taxpayers $$, the fraud extends to the advice being given to government by the biggest beneficiaries of it, the many academics, bureaucrats, NGOs and advocates, the elite who ride the gravy train - in many cases for decades!

Paul1405 and others should sit down and nut out who gains what from maintaining a dysfunctional system. And emphatically YES, the claimed victims can gain too from a dysfunctional system. For instance, by not doing the tough yards and being responsible for themselves and their children, even where that is as simple as washing hands with soap and water before preparing food.

First clue, it isn't the Australian public that contribute $billions in taxes annually and are fed up to the back teeth with the constant deceit, spin and blame-shifting over decades.

Any wonder the electorate is 'inexplicably volatile' and 'doing the wrong thing' by electing Hanson and others?

Joe, you are asking the sixty four dollar question. What is to be done to resolve a terrible dilemma. Much of the time on the thread has been spent pointing to statistics and anecdotal evidence to show that a problem exists. None of that offers a solution
"Marcia Langton has suggested more funding and more family and parental responsibility" I agree, I'm not sure "more funding" is the answer. Then to say "more family and parental responsibility", I would say defiantly, but then how do you achieve that when people are dysfunctional in the way they are. Got to cure the dysfunctionality in the first place to be able to move to the level of family and parental responsibility so desired. The answer is not Don Dale type institutions for the young, but something better for all concerned.