Hi Toni,

Thanks for your input re Ben Batterham, the circumstances which led to a charge of murder will be investigated by police and the charge may well be downgraded to manslaughter, still a very serious charge which can carry a long jail term.
What these events boil down to is the concept of "reasonable force" and the police must look at that aspect. I agree with the present system. The Greens policy is clear to me, obtaining a gun licence for no other reason that you might need it for self defense sometime in the future, American style, is not in itself a valid reason for owning a gun in the first place. The idea that protection of ones property takes precedence over a persons life is not acceptable, simply saying something like "He was running away with my wallet, so I shot him dead!", is not acceptable in itself, and given no other circumstances is likely to lead to a charge of murder.

What Paul1405 is not saying is that the Greens pay lip service to the notion of self defence, while wanting to restore the very unfair and unreasonable previous law that re-victimised victims of home invasions and assault by putting the onus on them to prove their defence was warranted and that their actions in defending themselves were reasonable.

The Greens favour the attacker and the home invader and are forever beavering away to protect and extend the criminal's rights. Greens have no sympathy nor empathy for the victim and the vulnerable public.

That the people of NSW have enlightened self defence legislation is due entirely to the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party. The Greens fought a bitter battle all of the way, being adamantly opposed to removing the disgraceful situation where the victim of an assault or home invasion faced a reversed standard of proof.

NSW Law, with particular attention to "Defence or Right", page 2, given below,

"Defence or Right?
'Self-Defence' isn't really a defence in the legal sense. Usually, the defendant would carry
the onus of raising and proving a defence. However, section 419 provides that the
prosecution has the onus of proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that the person did not
carry out the conduct in self-defence. So, it is up to the police to eliminate it as an issue by
proving beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant's act was not done in self-defence.
The police will negative self-defence if they prove beyond reasonable doubt either:
(i) that the accused did not genuinely believe that it was necessary to act as he or she
did in his or her own defence, or
(ii) that what the accused did was not a reasonable response to the danger, as he or
she perceived it to be."

http://chrisnowlan.com/self_defence.pdf

Just as an aside, I was in the local supermarket yesterday and saw packets of "Unprocessed Sugar".
Being pedantic I immediately thought that the sugar must have gone through some process to become a marketable product in a packet, therefor it could not be unprocessed.

Hi Paul,

Tee-hee ! Barnaby = Barnyard. Cory Bernardi = Cory Banana [yuk yuk !] Turnbull = Turnballs [Stop, my sides are splitting !].

Do you have a silly name for your Gift that Keeps on Giving, Pauline ? Brilliant argumentation, so deep, so incisive.

Anyway, back to topic: Proportionally, the Greens lost more votes than the coalition, a third compared to a tenth. We should be trying to learn why this was so:

* from a neo-Marxist point of view, what class interests have shifted during the last three years ?

* clearly, there is record dissatisfaction with the major parties (except with the Nationals), and with minor parties such as the Greens. The perception is that they haven't delivered.

* since the end of the mining boom, of course support has shifted from ruling parties at state and federal levels, and away from the greens as people feel their hip-pocket nerve pinching that much more (except for the Kale Latte set, of course, on the public teat).

* the instability within the greens - and there's a lot more to come as their defeat hits home - may force it to put aside some of its watermelon policies and focus more on green issues that concern the ordinary hoi-polloi. Nah, that won't happen.

Wouldn't be dead for quids ! Thanks, Paul.

Joe

Joe, as a one eyed disciple of the rabid right, you only refer to name calling of politicians when it is directed at your side of politics, not seeing, or commenting on the names Brown Eyed Bob (Bob Brown), Dave Sandleplank for David Shoebridge, I don't judge you as a person of the middle ground, as like OTB you might want to profess to be.
According to the AEC the vote for The Greens stands at 1,311,410 or 10.08% up 1.43% for the house of reps, Add in the Senate vote thus far, which was down slightly at 0.3%, particularly in SA where the Nick X vote was very strong and overall The Greens have increased their vote. Did you fail arithmetic at school? Making a wrong statement as " Proportionally, the Greens lost more votes than the coalition" no Joe, they actually gained votes, and I have shown you to be wrong. When all the votes are countered you can add up the grand total and see you are wrong.
The Nationals vote of 4 or 5% has been up and down over a number of elections. nothing new in that, as the cow cockies tend to flock left or right, depending on the weather conditions at the time.
Did you not claim you once handed out for The Greens, given you political stance now, you must believe that was during your period of political lunacy, hippy days, pot smoking, tree hugging and all that. Did they reject you in some way?

Your web site and the motivation behind it puzzles me. Why does a member of the rabid right host a web site on aboriginals. What is the purpose, what message is it attempting to convey? Interesting.

A search on Google revealed this:

"A KITCHEN knife was the weapon of choice in an alleged attempted home invasion at South Grafton.

Just after 7.20pm on Saturday, a 43-year-old Grafton man allegedly armed himself with the knife and metal chain and attended a home on Margaret Cres.

Coffs-Clarence Police acting inspector Darren Williams said the family inside the home heard shouting, and looked outside to see the alleged offender standing on their front lawn.

"The family left the residence to see what the problem was and saw the man holding a large kitchen knife and chain and threatening to kill anyone inside the home," Act Insp Williams said.

The male occupant then told his family to get back inside the house, and barricaded the front door.

But as the accused allegedly made further threats and continued to bang on the front door, the family became fearful for their lives.

Act Insp Williams said the male occupant removed a shot gun from his cabinet, and fired warning shots into a safe area in an attempt to deter the accused.

Shortly after, police arrived on scene and apprehended the 43-year-old man.

He was taken to Grafton Base Hospital for medical checks and later transferred to Grafton Police Station where he was arrested and charged.

He was bail refused to appear in court on Sunday and is due to reappear in Grafton Local Court today (Monday).

Act Insp Williams said the alleged offender was not known to the victims - in fact "a complete stranger".

He said dozens of phone calls had been made to police from nearby residents and witnesses who heard the sound of the warning shot being fired.

The licensed firearm has also been seized by police."

http://www.coffscoastadvocate.com.au/news/shots-fired-alleged-south-grafton-home-invasion/3059496/

Under Greens' Law the 64 year old defender of his family would be prosecuted,
seems a bit unfair and illogical to me, but that's the Greens!!