The Forum > General Discussion > Bremain redux
Bremain redux
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Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 26 June 2016 4:45:04 AM
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Britain has voted decisively to leave the EU. What this means for the Britain and the EU depends largely on whether there is a bitter divorce or a conscious uncoupling. While there is clearly raw emotions on both sides, the EU stands to lose nearly as much as the UK in a complete separation. For example the UK is a massive market for French farm produce, cars etc that they can buy far cheaper from Japan or the US. Similarly the EU is a great market for the UK's efficient workforce. While some EU politicians have called for the UK to leave immediately and totally, already some like Merkel have realised the damage that this would cause to both sides especially with the strong anti EU sentiment in many countries in the EU.
The strong anti EU feelings have long been stoked by a resentment against laws and regulations being imposed by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, and the recent crises in Greece and Germany have so clearly shown that one country's arrogance can truly stuff it up for everyone else. I believe that the EU's refusal to compromise on the UK's membership conditions was the final tipping point, and that this vote might be the shock that triggers significant change in the EU before Brexit becomes a contagion. Posted by Shadow Minister, Sunday, 26 June 2016 7:33:51 AM
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"The Brexit figureheads had no plan besides exploiting populist fears and dismissing experts who rubbished their thinking"
"Where was the champagne at the Vote Leave headquarters? The happy tears and whoops of joy? If you believed Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, the Brexit vote was a moment of national liberation, a day that Nigel Farage said our grateful children would celebrate with an annual bank holiday. Johnson and Gove had every reason to celebrate. The referendum campaign showed the only arguments that matter now in England are on the right. With the Labour leadership absent without leave and the Liberal Democrats and Greens struggling to be heard, the debate was between David Cameron and George Osborne, defending the status quo, and the radical right, demanding its destruction. Johnson and Gove won a dizzying victory with the potential to change every aspect of national life, from workers’ rights to environmental protection. Yet they gazed at the press with coffin-lid faces and wept over the prime minister they had destroyed...." "...Johnson and Gove are the worst journalist politicians you can imagine: pundits who have prospered by treating public life as a game. Here is how they play it. They grab media attention by blaring out a big, dramatic thought. An institution is failing? Close it. A public figure blunders? Sack him...." "Johnson and Gove carried with them a second feature of unscrupulous journalism: the contempt for practical questions. Never has a revolution in Britain’s position in the world been advocated with such carelessness. The Leave campaign has no plan. And that is not just because there was a shamefully under-explored division between the bulk of Brexit voters who wanted the strong welfare state and solid communities of their youth and the leaders of the campaign who wanted Britain to become an offshore tax haven. Vote Leave did not know how to resolve difficulties with Scotland, Ireland, the refugee camp at Calais, and a thousand other problems, and did not want to know either." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/boris-johnson-michael-gove-eu-liars?CMP=share_btn_tw Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 26 June 2016 8:27:37 AM
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Every time the socialists think they’re going to help the poor by promoting unlimited government power, every time it ends up a huge nasty dysfunctional corrupt mess, and every time it takes the socialists by complete surprise. I mean honestly, these people are operating at the intellectual level of a fish.
What is wonderful about brexit is the stammering uncomprehension of the smug elites who act as if they’ve just been slapped with a wet fish. They can’t believe that the ordinary people have actually been permitted to say “NO” to the governing elites for once. Who backed EU power issuing directives on banana curvature? The Poirots and Steelereduxs of this world. Don’t laugh. That’s what these people actually think. Merkel invited the whole world to come to the EU and live on government handouts and these people actually think that’s wonderful, because they think government is just a fountain of endless freebies with no connection to the reality that government confiscates every penny that it gets from the ordinary people. It was entirely predictable that the single currency would be seized on by the redistributionists as a tool for their schemes of treating people as herds, some entitled to live at the expense of others, and others bound to supply the servile involuntary labour. Then when the whole thing goes pear shaped, the socialists have got the gall to blame the markets! The Eurocrats were dreaming of a global superpower single army, backed by a huge treasury and taxes, and talking of it fighting Russia, and Poirot can only think to respond to the public’s rejection of this dysfunctional state by crawling up the arse of the elites. Why? Because like all socialists, Poirot cannot comprehend the idea of economic activity that is not the outcome of a government “plan”. Stalinism redux: people as cattle belonging to government. If you study her posts, you’ll find there is no logical coherence, just disconnected snippets of snippy groupthink that she’s got from her statist organs. Post us a few more links from the ABC, Poirot, show us what you’re made of. Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Sunday, 26 June 2016 9:14:22 AM
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Maybe I can't interpret a simple map in a newspaper but it seemed to me that Cornwall voted to Remain - in fact, western England right up into Wiltshire. So London, Cornwall, Scotland and northern Ireland (and the Isle of Man) voted to remain.
A new referendum in Scotland is 'highly likely', according to Sturgeon. A vote for Scottish independence is also 'highly likely'. This will put pressure on Northern Ireland to have its own referendum, and to either stand alone, seek to merge with Ireland, or, as part of a United Ireland, seek some sort of loose Celtic Confederation with Scotland. And again, there's Cornwall: IF the above sequence of events occur, will there be pressure from Cornwall to have the right to carry out its own referendum for independence, and then arrangements on forming some sort of loose association with Ireland and Scotland ? And even though Wales (except for Cardiff) voted to Brexit, would this hypothetical course of events influence the Welsh people to Brukxit and join a Celtic Confederation as well ? Of course, if Scotland voted to leave the UK, England and Wales would have to hold elections for a bi-national parliament without Scottish representation. Similarly Northern Island. And Cornwall. And even the Isle of Man. Interesting times ! Joe Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 26 June 2016 9:42:21 AM
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"Post us a few more links from the ABC, Poirot, show us what you’re made of"
Forgive me, JKJ, how dare I post analysis from people far wiser and more informed than you! The links I have posted have been the most informed content on this thread. Your contribution has consisted in large part of ad hom to Poirot. Should we suffice with a load of hot air and ad hom from the likes of you blathering away intermittently? Euro this, Euro that, blather, blah, blah.... Where is your considered analysis of UK prospects in light of the vote to exit the EU without a cogent economic plan? Does that not concern you ensconced as you are in your far-right fairyland reverie? Now I realise the likes of UKIP and Conservative "leavers" door-knocking and employing the airwaves to tell folks they are going to stop immigration - and even boot people out...that money currently going to the EU will be used for the NHS (neither of which is going to happen) would appeal to some. Brexit appears to be the most careless, disorganised, xenophobically-driven, hastily ordained conclusion of modern times - and all because of fewding factions in the far-right of UK politics. Great stuff! Here's your link: "So, here’s the thing. This was never a referendum on the EU. It was a referendum on the modern world, and yesterday the frightened, parochial lizard-brain of Britain voted out, out, out, and today we've all woken up still strapped onto this ghost-train as it hurtles off the tracks. Leave voters are finding they care less about immigration now that their pension pots are under threat. Maybe one of the gurning pundits promising them pride and sovereignty should have mentioned that, but they were too busy lying about the NHS. The curtain has been torn away and now we all have to look at the men behind it. They are not good men." http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-want-my-country-back Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 26 June 2016 9:58:47 AM
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The demographic of voters were that the younger generation wanted to stay with the EU and the older generation wanted things back the way it was before joining the EU.
Older voters were able to remember how much better things were whilst the younger generation only ever knew life as part of the EU.
On the whole its a shame Britain ruined it for themselves being part of the EU and its karma for England for their past imperialism.
But I'm glad for the British people who now have the ability to take control of their nation once again and make their own decisions.
It will not be easy for them, and I'm sure other groups will try to undermine them and see them fail, to prevent further countries exiting the EU.