Boazy,

Glad we can connect on an issue!

GZ Tan,

Thanks for the effort you are putting in although can I bring your attention to a number of issues that illustrate poor knowledge of the subject you are trying to discuss:

1. “To marry a Muslim, one must accepts the Islam faith”

False statement, muslim cam marry from the believers of the book (jewish, Christian) and they can keep their faith and its practice.

2. “One's children are expected to be Muslims”

Its a marriage pre-condition in some cases just like if you marry a Jewish woman, her kids will be Jewish.

3. “Muslims try to convince us they are like us ..drink Alcohol and eat pork”

For the benefit of the doubt I hope you did not mean that the Muslim integration means alcohol and pork. Please clarify your statement before I comment further.

4. “The Quran cannot be interpreted for modern times”

False statement, a number of scholar started this process over two decades ago such as Dr El Bahi and Sheikh Al Ghazali. Its true though that some were accused of being heretics, but Sheikh Ghazali for example analysed the abrogation theory in the Qu’ran and discredited the traditional understanding of it. His books and programs were watched by over 30 Million Muslims in the Arab world alone.

5. The basic rules of Islam cannot be changed (ie the one true God, fasting, paying the alms, praying and pilgrim). Everything else is sucject to progress and time. There are a number of examples throughout Islamic history where this occurred. The obvious one is when a case of drought occurred a Muslim ruler (Omar) suspended the criminal justice part of Sharia laws for few years fearing that some people might lose their hand stealing out of hunger.

Using your words, I don’t mind ‘crossing swords’ with you but please be more objective and distinguish between faith, religious and cultural practices.

As much as I think culture is a part of this topic, I don't think the Muslim culture is the sole object of this topic.

The topic is about Australia already having a culture and the fact that importing cultures into our society is unnecessary.

FH - a culture is a culture call it mono if you like... i said we had 2 recognisable cultures and that one of them is the dominant australian culture, the other the indigenous culture. i hardly think that is debateable.

Importing cultures from across the world, into our society and culture makes for many cultures... but they aren't all Australian.

T800,

There is a question before your last comment:

Can Australia afford to grow organically only? what will it look like if it did (growth, employment, aging population, resource utilisation, regional weight,etc..)?

There will be your schoold of though but there will be many more who can see the benefits of migration intake.

Accepting an immigration policy means that migrants countries will influence and be influenced by the host country.
"Australia has a culture - Multiculture is NOT required"

Not sure if you had a pre-conceived opinion above or you wanted to raed other opnions.

I guess the bigger question is: is migration to Australia properly managed?

Apologies if my last posting to GZ Tan derailed your thread but I tried to avoid a Muslim centric thread but Mr Tan insisted.

FH,

You'd better excuse your Alzheimer's memory-loss or else be regarded a hypocrite. Did you call my opinion false? (Are you actually still at school?)

As much you constantly white-wash and sugar-coat your religion, you claim those who disagree have a poor knowledge.

Firstly, my statement reads, in full context: "To marry a Muslim, one must accepts the Islam faith, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER".
I am aware there are partners of Muslims who are non-Muslims, but NOT out of the goodness of Islam.

When Quran mentions Muslims cam marry Jewish and Christians, it was because Muhammad:
(1) did not want to overly offend two dominant religions of the day;
(2) used that as a cunning ploy to subdue the Jews and the Christians;
(3) wanted to build Islam on top of two established religions so that he would sound more convincing.

'People of the book' actually meant 'People of the faith distorted'. Muhammad would then justify to force them 'back' to the 'correct faith'.
Allowing Jewish and Christians to keep their faith meaning to keep them as hostages of Islam.

As you already admitted, children of Muslims are expected to also be Muslims. So can the Jewish wife (hostage) of a Muslim (master) expect her children to be other than a Muslim? Surely not!

Today, Islam is the arch-enemy of... you guess it - Jews, Christians. So, call the hypocrisy as it really is about accepting 'people of the book'. ( There was never a sincere spirit of that in Muhammad, from day one.)

FH: "The Quran cannot be interpreted for modern times"

Firstly, the above is YOUR statement, not mine. My statements are different and without the specific context 'interpret for modern times'.

But is it surprising there are few who attempt to re-interpret and revise the 'true meaning' of Quran? Not at all. The point is, they really do not count. Quran is the same before and after such attempts and will be the same long after people forget about El Bahi and Al Ghazali.

FH,

FH said: "please be more objective and distinguish between faith, religious and cultural practices."

I am fully aware of the distinction and differences, that's why I wrote earlier: "Even if different Muslims practise it a little differently, there is a never ceasing 'pull factor' towards a central theme."

On Muslim integration...

I did not say Muslim integration means drinking alcohol and eating pork. Not at all.

But I would simply say that if the consensus opinion is that drinking alcohol and eating pork are regarded as cultural integration, then Muslims who are non-drinking and non-pork-eating are simply: Non-integrating. Any problem with this?

FH, I think at this stage we need to aim for Zero net Migration to Australia. Until we have developed a proper Population Policy and have a plan for our future which is environmentally, economically and socially susutainable.

Personally i think Muliticulti should be abandoned to ensure the latter. Migrants should come here to become Australians not to remain as they are. Merely transplanting another nationality here is not what I expect migration to be about. It certainly isn't what citizenship is about.