A common way of trying to get off the hook when you're challenged to define your position is to answer a question with a question. You started this discussion, T800. It's your responsibilty to clarify exactly what, in your opinion, we are supposed to be discussing.

So far you've given us a dictionary definition of the word culture and a grab-bag of odds and ends.

If you simply said that we don't want people coming to Australia and causing trouble and disruption, then you may get general agreement. But one person's "trouble and disruption" is another person's right to legally protest against unfairness, isn't it?

You may not have noticed, but one way in which Australian attitudes are changing is in regard to the monarchy. I accept that there was a time when Australians were overwhelmingly monarchists. That is no longer true. It could be said that this aspect of Australian culture is changing. Those Australians, like myself, who are not monarchists don't have an "attitude problem", they merely hold a different political opinion on this subject. If I choose to vote for a different candidate to your choice in an election, do I then have an attitude problem?

If you can't tell us what Australian culture actually consists of, perhaps you can tell us the type of people you would not allow to settle here.

FH,

I can met you anywhere, any topic if I want. But it only makes sense if you will discard falsehood, deceit and hypocrisy, so typical of a Muslim.

I can even continue as this thread was intented.

So some questions below to challenge your thinking.

You think becoming Australian means:-

(1). Love the country

Q: Do you love Australia as is, a western liberal democracy?

(2). Love its people

Q: A lots of gays and lesbians here. Do you love them as well? Do you love prostitutes and whores as human beings?

(3). Respect its values

Q: You believe Islamic values are over and above values of a western liberal democracy, don't you?

(4). Obey the laws

Q: You also believe in sharia laws that are incompatible with values under Australia's laws, isn't that true?

(5). pay the taxes

Q: Is it not true some unemployed Muslims have no guilt about burdening the tax and welfare system? eg. having many children (an encouragement arising from the Islam culture).

(6). contribute to the society

Q: It is very clear Muslim population in Islamic states do not contribute to ideals of freedom and democracy. I infer that Muslims here cannot possibly make a positive NETT contribution towards freedom and democracy, correct?

(7). raise a healthy happy family

Q: If hypothetically you have to choose between raising a happy non-Muslim family OR raising a less-than-happy Muslim family, which is more important to a Muslim?

Rex, Rex, Rex... stop building strawmwen.... I provided a definition and provided cultural examples. Even then it took me more than 50 words... (culture covers quite a lot Rex) stop being disingenuous and have a go yourself then... pick a National culture you are familiar with.

Don't lie about me Rex... I don't appreciate it.

GZ Tan,

Please find your questionnaire filled:

1. Yes. Although Australia is a “Southern Liberal democracy”, the word “West” lost it meaning when we found out that the earth is round..LOL

2. I don’t judge other people based on question 1. Respecting someone ‘right to exist does not mean you approve (or you need to) the content of how they live it.

3. I don’t see discrepancies between my values as a Muslim and / or an Australian, western society values (Unless you are referring again to pork and alocohol). Islam preaches honesty, openness, hard work, fair treatment and trade and equality.

5. Social benefits fraud in Australia is practised by a few people and not exclusive to Arabs or Muslims. I witnessed greeks, Italians, anglos, single mums, etc.. The system need to close the fraud gaps and severely penalise offenders.

6. Muslims in Australia do vote and contribute to politics and policy making in Australia. If encouraged similar to the US, they can contribute more if it wasn’t for people like you scaring them off. Muslims like democracy and in Iraq they risked their lives to go and vote for the first time which is a risk I don’t know of any liberal westerner can take.

7. I am raising my kids to be Australians and Muslims. What they chose to practice when they are adults is their choice there are no guarantees. Whats important for a parent is to have good happy kids.

How is my score? :)

Free yourself from the vicious circle of fear and hate. One will always dig and find a bad apple(s) everywhere if you keep looking for them.

Peace,

FH,

Words are just that - words. So say anything you'd like.

I'am critical logically and do consider your answers very evasive.
But at the end of the day I am not the one to judge you.

To my analysis Islam is not able to withstand the test of truth. Also, Muslim moderates which you are one, will not make the slightest difference to where the world is headed, to further clashes with Islam... and misery.

In the end we will realise our destiny as dictated by divinity... and the truth will be winner.

Enjoy our earthly life while we can...

T800, several posters have asked you to say exactly what you mean and you have repeatedly dodged the issue. So it's not just me who's being difficult. If you reckon that you've already been clear enough, then all you need to do is copy what you've already said.

I like this thread, otherwise I would not have stuck with it. I think that you and others have some important and relevant things to say about how Australia was, is now and where we're possibly heading.

It's my feeling that I [and at least some others] would find that we have a number of gut feelings in common with you. But gut feelings are too vague a description when we're talking about common values.

One of the first "stereotypes" I mentioned on this thread was meeting a typical friendly Aussie, who was happy to share his beer [and a bit of light-hearted leg-pulling] with a New Australian and a new chum. I'm very happy and very proud to be part of a country with such wonderful stereotypes. And I bet you are too.

This is one of the first things I said too:

"What I don't appreciate [and I think this is the real issue] is being told what to do, or not do, from an illogical, unsubstantiated, often religious point of view. But for many who, even in egalitarian Australia, consider themselves to be our betters, it's considered OK to push some of the more narrow-minded Christian stuff down our throats. Then the same people scream blue murder if some of the Muslim migrants try to emulate them."

I just thought it was worth repeating.