I have just watched this video and I thought I had a reasonable
knowledge of the history of conflict with Islam. I was wrong.
I new about Spain but for instance I did not know that part of France
was occupied by Islam. It is real eye openner.
Being history it should be easily verified.

http://tinyurl.com/zkrv2nc

Looking at it with the perspective of history, I believe we should take
the current conflict with Islam much more seriously.

Yet another thread on Islam?

You know, it's getting boring!

Are you sure you have no other agenda behind this, I mean other than actual fear of an Islamic conquest? Something perhaps like using this vehicle to try to strengthen, if not even enforce, Western values and identity?

Bazz,
Yes it's a good video but he doesn't even go into what happened in Asia and leaders like Timur or the Mughals, plus people assume that the Islamic conquest of Malaysia and Indonesia was peaceful, it wasn't.
What happened to Europe pales into comparison when you look at what Islam did to India, Afghanistan and the Caucasus.

Yuyutsu.
What's wrong with imposing European culture on European people in order to strengthen them? Europe is being invaded if you don't want to see Europeans rise and repel their ancient enemy then you're on the side of the global Jihad.

After the recent terrorist attacks in the US on the Planned Parenthood staff that resulted in 3 people shot dead and nine seriously wounded, Americans are now concerned they are worried about the wrong set of terrorists.

It seems that in the years following the 2001 Twin Towers attacks, there have been 50 deaths associated with Muslim terrorists, and 254 deaths associated with mad right-wing terrorist organisations in America, such as the Sovereign Citizen movement.

"Though terrorism perpetrated by Muslims receives a disproportionate amount of attention from politicians and reporters, the reality is that right-wing extremists pose a much greater threat to people in the United States than terrorists connected to ISIS or similar organizations."

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/30/3725562/you-are-more-than-7-times-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-right-wing-extemist-than-by-muslim-terrorists/

Maybe Australia can learn from America's mistakes?

Suzie, perhaps you did not watch that video link.
Perhaps the US has tightened up so much they have not had much chance.

Yes Jay, the moslems killed millions in India.
We just have to presume that they have not changed their objectives
and we must act accordingly.

Dear Jay,

I was under the impression that certain Muslims wish to impose their way of life on EVERYONE else (as also demonstrated by Dr. Bill Warner) - that being the case, it should be prevented and I believe that the Australian government is adequately addressing the issue already.

What's wrong about what Muslims are doing is that they try to impose their culture on others - and you too, it seems, wish to impose your own culture on others! What's then the difference? Why should I then bother to support either side in that case?

Sorry, I'm only concerned about current enemies who pose a real risk today, not only to your particular culture but to actual living people of all other cultures - I could not care less about some "ancient enemies" and for settling the accounts of your particular Western/European culture.

Yuyutsu,
You have got it all backwards.
We do not want to impose "our" culture on anybody, WE just want them
to go back and do their own thing there and don't bother us.

However that would be to disobey allah and we can't have that can we ?

Susie is right to point out that the most dangerous place on earth is the mothers womb. The regressives have a lot in common with Islam hence always their deranged defence thereof.

runner,
The only people Susie is defending is Muslim terrorists. She cannot bring herself to condemn the topic. The greatest numbers of murder this year are by Muslims in West Africa and then ISIS but she focuses on a few American criminals. Over 2,000 people in America have been murdered by individual Muslims but this does not concern her. She is an advocate for left wing violence.

Watch that link I put up, explains all the waffling that pollies &
others are indulging in.
It is 44 minutes but worth every minute of it.

Hi there...

I don't for a moment believe SUSEONLINE is defending any terrorist group, Muslim or otherwise. She generally adopts a fairly pragmatic approach to many topics, and though I don't agree with some of the things she may say, on this issue I believe we're wrong !

Moreover I do agree, there are many 'far right wacko's' in the US with too many guns and too much time on their idle hands, roaming around the countryside looking for some mischief or cause. Something they can understand and is not too complex for them to intellectually embrace, in which to unleash their misplaced venom on the unfortunate victims. Give these sociologically misfits a job, consistent with their cerebral capabilities, and they'll generally forget all about what it was, that originally annoyed them ?

While it's quite true that I'm a good way to the 'right' of politics myself, we'll always need some balance in our various arguments otherwise we lose perspective of what exactly it is we want, and how we should go about getting it.

Bazz: I did not know that part of France was occupied by Islam. It is real eye opener. Being history it should be easily verified.

Bazz, the Saracens made huge inroads into France. In the 8th Century they made it to Tours in the West of France & Besancon in the East. In the 10th Century they almost made it to Geneva. The Saracens occupied the Southern part of France, around Arles, for nearly two Centuries. Cambridge Illustrated History, Colin Jones France is good.

moslem Armies also made it up to Czechoslovakia(See Count Dracula) That's why they claim Europe as part of the Islamic Domain.

Yutsie: I believe that the Australian government is adequately addressing the issue already.

The Government is still trying to please both sides & they are slowly gaining a solid foothold in Australia. If they really wanted to address the issue they would return all moslems to whence they came.

Yutsie: I mean other than actual fear of an Islamic conquest?

A fear well founded.

Yutsie: What's wrong about what Muslims are doing is that they try to impose their culture on others - and you too, it seems, wish to impose your own culture on others!

Er... didn't you just tell me that you would like to see Hindu Culture ruling Australia in a previous topic. Besides, We don't go there & forcefully impose Western Culture on moslems, but they come here (uninvited) & demand that Islamic be forced on Australia.

JOM: the Islamic conquest of Malaysia and Indonesia was peaceful, it wasn't.

It was relatively peaceful compared to European & ME conquests. Most peoples simply moved to better locations like the Champa peoples (Hindu) moved to Vietnam from Indonesia in the 7th Century to avoid the moslems.

OSU: Moreover I do agree, there are many 'far right wacko's' in the US with too many guns and too much time on their idle hands, roaming around the countryside looking for some mischief or cause.

Amen(hotep) too that brother.

Dear Bazz,

<<We do not want to impose "our" culture on anybody>>

Perhaps you don't, but Jay of Melbourne does. He wrote: "What's wrong with imposing European culture on European people in order to strengthen them?"

So unlike your friends here, I give you the benefit of the doubt.

I just wondered how long can people discuss this topic over and over again: Islam, Islam, Islam, so it makes me suspect that this is just a cover for a different and broader quest.

Our ABC ran a load of rubbish about the "Sovereign Citizen" movement. Lots of death and bombs in the US and one 73 year old they accused of murder but who denied it. What a load of nonsense. No one has heard of these idiots before because they could hold a mass meeting in a phone box.
ABC lies trying to generate some cover for their lousy islamist mates. I think we are at the stage where the ABC has to suffer savage cuts until they obey their own charter.

Thanks O sung Wu, it is nice to read another well reasoned response to this issue rather than the mass hysteria many others on this site indulge in.

I think you are right Yuyutsu, there is far more to the rants from the usual good ol' boys who flock together on this site against all things Muslim.
The word 'bigots' springs to mind fairly quickly.

Personally, I am now bored with the topic, so I think I will just flock off....

Yuyutse, I think it would be much more educational for moslems to see
a demonstration of what democracy can do for people compared to their
theological dictatorships.

They have had the demonstration but they still want to be our enemy.
Those migrating to Europe seem to have made the comparison and are
voting with their feet.
Of course the theological dictators blame us for their troubles.

They even blame the west for the crusades.
That bit of propaganda really stuck, even into western education.
I do not see any hope of separating Islam & the west, so I think
that the future only holds war.
Perhaps this time the moslem armies can be stopped before they reach
the gates of Vienna. Or have they already passed through ?

Dear Bazz,

I was not intending to discuss Muslims and Islam yet again - we must have had at least 20 repeated discussions over this same topic lately on OLO and I'm simply tired of it.

Normally I disagree with the concept of states and their governments, but security is virtually the only exception and the government's only legitimate function. This Muslim thing is all about security, so why not allow them to do their job? They are being paid handsomely with my tax-money to break their heads over these security issues, to study and arrive at the best solutions while I don't get a penny for it and in any case, if and when Muslims take over Australia, it will be long after I've left this world for good!

The question I raised was different:

- Why are you and your friends never tired of raising this issue again and again. I suspect there is some ulterior motive that has nothing to do with Islam itself.

Yuyutse, well I for one am bored with it, but it keeps on intruding
itself into our faces.
Unfortunately if we just go away and yak on about Global Warming energy
etc etc, Islam will still be there doing its thing, blowing someone
up, or cutting someones head off or shooting up a police station.
You are right it is a security matter, but are the security services
able to stop them or does it need an alert and knowledgeable community
to agree with legislation changes from time to time.
Perhaps France, Belgium & Holland would not be in strife if they had
taken more notice earlier on.

There is no easy answer and no one is exactly right or wrong.

Fact is, all religions have had a long history of killing off anything they find antithetical to their own particular religious beliefs.

Talking of Muslims in France, does anyone remember the Cathars?

"Cathars called themselves simply Christians; their neighbours distinguished them as "Good Christians". The Catholic Church called them Albigenses, or less frequently, Cathars... They were strict about biblical injunctions - notably those about living in poverty, not telling lies, not killing and not swearing oaths."

And naturally, they were a bunch of heretics, according to the Catholic church...

"Basic Cathar Tenets led to some surprising logical implications. For example they largely regarded men and women as equals, and had no doctrinal objection to contraception, euthanasia or suicide."

http://www.cathar.info/

No wonder the Cahtolic church had to kill them all off...

"The Albigensian Crusade or Cathar Crusade (1209–1229) was a 20-year military campaign initiated by Pope Innocent III to eliminate Catharism in Languedoc, in the south of France."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Half a million people were killed. In one attack - by Christians, against Christians - the entire population of Beziers, some 15-20,000 people, were massacred.

As the Parisian graffitist wrote the other week, "Au nom de quoi?"

The fact is once land has been lived on by a Muslim family believing in the Caliphate it is land given to Allah and must be fought for if it has been lost. That is why Jews and Christians unless they convert they must be murdered. Everywhere the sole of your foot has trod is given to you as an inheritance.

Saudi Arabia has listed every person in their territory who are an atheist [not believe in Allah] is a terrorist. Their definition of terrorist is different to how we see a terrorist. Western democracy is anathema to Islam as it allows opposition to the laws of Allah.

Those that believe in the Caliphate will not accept Western democracy or respect for its laws. That is why they will not accept Western Judges.

Yuyutse; Who benefits from our boredom ?

Yep as Pericles rightly points out that the Catholic church has as bad record as the secularist who continue to kill the unborn at horrific rates. They have much in commom with Islam. One worships the moon god while the other worships oneself and is so full of self righteouesness that they are blinded from any sort of truth.

runner: Yep as Pericles rightly points out that the Catholic church has as bad record.

I notice you point out the Catholics but don't mention Protestants. Their history of violence is every bit as bad in past history. But, this isn't past history. This is now. What happened previously has nothing to do with "now" That also goes for the moslems. What they did 1000 years ago is of no consequence "now."

"Now" the followers of islam are still living in the 7th Century Middle East & behaving as such. Their Culture & Lifestyle is not compatible with the Modern World & certainly not Australian Culture.

They say Australia is Multi-Cultural & it is. The difference is that the majority of those Cultures come from a Christian Cultures. Those that don't, such as, Buddhists & Hindus come from benign Cultures & have fitted in to the West quite well.

Unfortunately islam never will fit in & cannot because of their belief System. The best thing the West & Australia can do is to totally ban all tenants of islam from our shores for the safety of our citizens.

'I notice you point out the Catholics but don't mention Protestants. Their history of violence is every bit as bad in past history. But, this isn't past history. This is now. What happened previously has nothing to do with "now

yea Jayb this now which is why the focus need to be on secularist and Islam. And yet another lone wolf attack today in US by the Islamist. Obama will need to borrow a speach from France, Germany. Norway, Australia. Italy in order to ensure he does not offend Islamist.

Dear Jayb,

<<Er... didn't you just tell me that you would like to see Hindu Culture ruling Australia in a previous topic.>>

Really, am I suffering from dementia?
Would you care to show me where?

Hindu culture is based on a class system that is repulsive. Thousands starve while cows are worshipped. Hindu extremist are as bad as Islamist often murderering 'heretics'. Often the untouchables are left for dead as they were suppose to have been 'bad'in a previous life.

Interesting concept, Jayb.

>>What happened previously has nothing to do with "now"<<

How do you decide what is no longer relevant?

The Battle of the Boyne took place in 1690. Orangemen still celebrate William's victory over the "papists", while the IRA still resent it, and blow stuff up as part of their celebrations. Does that have "nothing to do with now"?

China and Taiwan have been separated politically for 66 years. Does that have "nothing to do with now"?

The First Council of Nicaea took place in 325 AD, and there are still billions of people who belong to the church that was legitimized by Constantine. Does that have "nothing to do with now"?

A Turkish fighter took down a Russian bomber last week, and I guess Mr Putin is still a trifle miffed. Does that have "nothing to do with now"?

If you think that history has "nothing to do with now", you are living in a fantasy world, I'm afraid.

Pericles you mention the Cathars. yes they were a very austere lot. Virginity was highly prized especially for men. There life sounds good but as usual there were heavy restrictions on everything. They were Manichaean Christian. The ones that lost out to Paulian Christianity when Constantine accepted Paulian Christianity. He took the bribe of four matched Arab Stallions from a Paulian Bishop.

I have been to Beziers to the Cathedral. Did you know that the "Rose" window in the front of any Cathedral is a Dedication to Mary Magdalen. (They keep that a big secret.) The Grease from the people murdered inside the Cathedral is still there even though they have painted over it for hundreds of years.

Beziers was a "Free City" meaning they accepted all religions equally. When the General found the people of the city had taken refuge in the Cathedral he sent a message to Pope Gregory (yes, the one who devised our present Calendar.) He sent the message back, "If they won't give up the Heretics burn them all. God will know his own." This saying has come down throw time.

Interesting Book. "The Cathars" by Lucien Bely. (Sud Ouest ISBN: 2.87901.193.0) I brought this book in Carcassonne along with a few others about the local areas. I guess I must have hundreds of these types of books produces by local historians. Dis you know Simon De Montfort was killed at the siege of Carcassonne. A Cathar Bastion. He lost his head to a female Artillery Squad manning a Trebuchet.

I love true history.

JB: Dis you know Simon De Montfort was killed at the siege of Carcassonne.

Sorry, Toulouse & taken to Carcassonne for burial at St. Nazaire's Cathedral. I have seen his stone in the Cathedral.

Oh, all Rose Windows in front of Churches are a dedication to St Mary Magdalen. Most Catholics don't know that. Also when you look at a statue of Mary with a child. If she is standing on the head of a snake it's Mary the Mother of Joshua (Jesus), if she is beside a pillar with a vine wrapped around it & an open book with a pen It's Mary Magdalen. FYI

Regarding history and the war with Assad in Syria.

The Muslims of the Ottoman Empire, massacred the Christians in Damascus
Back in the 18hundreds.

Of cause rape goes along with massacre, and it seems to me that a lot of the people
Around Assad look half European, whereas the so called good rebels
Fighting Assad look a lot more Arab.

Is this an ancient hostility flaring into violence once again?

And does Putin understand the history of Damascus much better than Western countries. And that's why he is protecting Assad and the people around him,
Seeing the so called good Syrian Rebels as an ancient dangerous enemy
To the region and to Europeans.

Suze,

Your comment on the latest massacre in the US by Muslims?

Her friend.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/female-san-bernardino-shooter-tashfeen-malik/story?id=35589386

Let's not talk about those two scumbag Muslims, this woman fled Iran in the 1980's to escape the fanatics and died at the hands of just such people in San Bernardino:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/127604-who-was-bennetta-betbadal-the-san-bernardino-shooting-victim-was-devoted-to-her-family-and-her

Get it through your heads o you Gütmenschen there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim, Jihad with words is still Jihad, it still has the same goals and the Koran permits violence if talking doesn't work.

jom: and the Koran permits violence if talking doesn't work.

In fact, the koran insists on it.

Funny how they never shout "This is for your casual racism and Islamophobic attitudes you bunch of ignorant Chavs". It's always "Allahu Akbar", "This is for Syria", "You will never know peace until you get out of Muslim lands" and so forth.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/05/this-is-for-syria-machete-wielding-london-tube-attacker-slashes-mans-throat/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Suseonline seems to think that. since more people are killed by right-wingers than muslims (see more below) then we are misplacing our concern and showing our prejudice.

By the same token, since 80% of rapes are done by acquaintances, our concerns over strangers raping is misplaced. Our outrage over Adrian Bayley (rapist of Jill Meagher) was, by this 'logic' misplaced and showing our prejudices. I'm sure Suseonline will go along with that.

When you see a number that looks to be a stretch and certainly startlingly new such as "you-are-more-than-7-times-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-right-wing-extemist-than-by-muslim-terrorists" the first thing you should do is check its bona fides. Well that is unless you really like the claim and its suits your prejudices, in which case you simply shout it as unassailably true and use it to make whatever daft point you want. Yes, I'm talking about Suse here.

When you look into the claim it begins to fall apart. Firstly, the report on which the number is based doesn't say right wingers kill more than muslim terrorists. Its says that non-jihadist terrorists kill more than jihadist terrorists and that those non-jihadists comprise those who hold "right-wing, left-wing or idiosyncratic beliefs". To get to their numbers, the obviously biased researchers left out a few muslim killers on the basis that they weren't proven to be jihadists but included any killer who had even a passing association with the right eg one chap got into a fight over a domestic violence arrest, and killed two police. He was included because his wife said he was upset over Obama's election!!

Still the nuances don't matter. This number will become one of those memes endlessly repeated by the likes of Suse and the left commentariat without the slightest concern that its utterly bogus.

Mhaze,
The term "Right winger" is meaningless anyway but the term "Islamic" is not, the only people who use the term "Right Winger" are Leftists and it literally translates as "People we don't like".
I obviously meet a lot of people the Left don't like and I've never heard any of them use the term "Right Wing", it's a Leftist slur and every time we hear it we know we're listening to one of our enemies.

In what universe are Islamo-fascists anything but extreme Right-wing, if we insist on using such terms as Left and Right ?

We are in a weird situation where some children, who don't like the US, have found a new buddy (whether he likes it or not), who truly-ruly don't like the US. So they must be good. So members of the SAF (Socialist Apologists for Fascism) take to the streets with their beside-the-point banners and accuse people of - what ? -racism ?! Who but idiots would ever say that race has anything to do with it ? But I suppose it side-tracks the discussion, such as there is one, and that's all opportunists need.

Note to SAF: Islamism is an ideology, it is not a race. It's not a Left-swing ideology, but an extremely fright-swing, reactionary, barbaric ideology. You would be amongst the first to be parted from your poor, empty heads, come the day. As my old grandmother would say, you've got your thumb up the wrong donkey's arse.

Just trying to help.

Joe

If most of you oppose radical Islam so much I don't know why you don't support Assad in Syria.
I guess you're all victims of MSM propaganda.
Do you not realise the conflict in Syria is between a pluralist state and sectarian Islamists, backed up by the big powers?

Would it be true to say that moslems are Infidelophobic?

Hmmm... did I just invent a new word? ;-)

Hi Jayb,

Well, yes, as an infidel, I often feel quite anxious that, if they knew, many Muslims, especially Islamists, would hate me - if 'phobia' still has that meaning.

Islamophobis, on the other hand ....

I was on the bus on Friday, and a middle-aged Muslim woman got on, loaded up with bags of stuff, and a 10-kilo bag of rice, having come from the markets. It was a hot day, 36-37 here in Adelaide. She dropped the bag of rice, getting out her swipe-card. I picked it up and put it next to me, and she sat down next to me (the only available seat) with the rest of her load, without acknowledging anything. I'd seen her many times, she has the face tattoos of a Somali or Yemeni woman, she gets off at my stop, so when our stop came up, I gave her the bag. Of course, as a good Muslim woman, she couldn't acknowledge it. But quite a few women on the bus gave me smiles of approval. So much for Islamophobia. [Or maybe it was just my good looks].

Paranoia: I went to school in Darwin, then came down to Adelaide. From a small town to a larger town, I developed a sort of phobia, that everybody else knew each other and were out to pick on me. Of course, it was fleeting, but I can appreciate people coming from not just a small town to a bigger one, but these cays from villages to a large city, an environment with totally different lifestyles, language and habits, shockingly free relationships and totally unfamiliar ethnic groups. In that situation, a glance in the street or on a bus may be misinterpreted as hostility or worse.

For all that, Muslims, women in hijabs, etc., seem to be completely relaxed in public, no furtive glances at some imagined act of hostility, or 'phobia'.

So let's move on from myths and fables.

Joe

Yes Jayb, you have; ifidelophobic !
You should copyright it !

With still-low levels of Moslem infiltration we Australians can still impatiently brush the problem aside. The Europeans in contrast are at last waking up. The Guardian has suddenly noticed the tectonic shift in polling for Front Nationale in an awakened France and is calling for electoral democracy to be gamed to the point of abandonment to counter Marine le Pen [1]. It is very instructive to read through the readers' comments on this - selecting to order the list on the basis of number of recommendations, to get a feel for what Europeans are thinking, brushing aside the Guardian's rearguard Islamophilic bleating.

The dhimmis in Australia rush to the side of Islam with cries of "racism" (Islam is not a race!) and especially "bigotry". Bigotry is the main problem with Islam, a relentless bigotry towards all of us (including the "useful idiots" who while failing to believe the message in the Moslems' "holy books" or accept Mohammed as a "prophet" ask us to accept it with open arms).

The Moslems' own "holy books" demonstrate that Islam is BIGOTRY ON STEROIDS. This is shown in fully referenced detail, taken from the Koran and the Hadiths ([2[) by scholars who have studied it and is well worth a read by all, especially those who although non-believers think the global march of Islam is ooau such a boooah.

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/06/the-guardian-view-on-the-french-regional-elections-the-remarkable-resilience-of-the-far-right

[2] http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

Armchair Critic you're absolutely right. Here are some of the leaders whose regimes were secular, who kept the Moslems strictly under control, and whom the Yanks and their allies deposed or are seeking to depose, opening the way eventuality for Islamic terrorism and tyranny:

Mohammed Mossadeq in Persia
Gamel Abdul Nasser in Egypt
Mohammad Najibullah in Afghanistan
Saddam Hussein in Iraq
Moamar Gaddafi in Libya
Bashir al Assad in Syria

Any I've left out?

Hi Jules,

Even if the Yanks were pure evil incarnate, I don't recall that they overthrew Nasser (heart attack - 1970 ?) or Bashar al Assad (heart attack - 2000). Najibullah was on a hiding to nothing after the Russians pulled out of Afghanistan, and inevitably was strung up. Castrated and mutilated first, by the mujahideen.

I wouldn't have described either Saddam or Gaddafi as democrats, interested in the welfare of their own people. Yes, they were secular, not Islamist but it's swings and roundabouts in Middle Eastern countries.

Yes, that leaves Mossadegh. You could have added that the Shah's secret police, SAVAK, murdered him in Paris (from memory) in the 1960s. No, Wikipedia says he died at 85 under house arrest: I'm thinking of one of the post-Shah leaders, Shahpour Bakhtiar, murdered in Paris by the ayatollahs' secret police in 1991. Probably the same police.

With brutal regimes, it's not common for leaders to die of old age in their beds. That's the game they play, so no mysteries.

Joe

I would not suggest any on my list, with the possible exception of the elected patriot Mohammed Mossadeq, was a democrat. However, they all (especially the ones who were not democrats) successfully if brutally suppressed elements motivated by Islam, and the Yanks and their allies (including the UK in the case of Mossadeq and the UK and Israel in the case of Nasser and France in the case of Gaddafi) sought (successfully in the case of Najibullah and Gaddafi) to depose the others. The CIA funded, trained and built the mujihadeen who deposed Najibullah and went on, after a round of internecine warfare, to spawn the Taliban which shielded Al Qa'eda who were wanted in America for (so Cheney & Co claimed) levelling the Twin Towers. Far from having died of a heart attack, Bashar al Assad leads the Syrian state to this very day against the gaggle of vile Moslem terrorist outfits whom the Yanks are arming and supporting in the hope of ousting Assad rather than empowering Syrian people to decide which is what the Russians are demanding. As for Saddam, he was deposed in an act of Yank aggression based on a tissue of lies echoed by Bliar and Howard.

The complexities can be unpicked endlessly but the upshot is that the Moslem terrorist rampage was Made in the USA through its wars against every regime that jumped on the Moslems' fingers whenever they appeared under the door. So now the enemy's fingers have worked their way under OUR doors here and in Europe and inside the USA itself.

This is a monstrous miscalculation by PNAC idiots who have been so focused on their own narrow and historically ephemeral geostrategic interests that they have unleashed a force with 14 centuries of unmitigated misanthropic evil behind it

Tony Abbott is copping a flurry of flak from the grovellers for the only intelligent remarks I have ever known him to make on any issue[1]

I’d set even more store, though by the remarks of the British commentator Pat Condell [2] following one of the Moslems’ rent-a-mob riots – a video but only five minutes and bang-on from beginning to end.

[1] http://tenplay.com.au/news/national/december/abbott-makes-divisive-comments-on-islam
[2] https://dotsub.com/media/72457cbc-fe18-4053-ae3f-6c7639cf4e79/embed/

Yes the reaction to Tony Abbotts statement had the expected hysterical
response. Any time he has said Boo the left and all the usual rabble
would go off.

It is about time someone said it as it is.
Perhaps now he is not PM he can be undiplomatic.
Malcolm Turnbull should be glad that someone is speaking out as it
relieves him of having to say it some time down the track.

I think we may have crossed a line in the sand since the Paris attack.
It has become noticeably less politically incorrect to speak out.
Funerals have that effect.

I doubt if the left and the media left understand what has happened.

Of course, some cultural practices are vastly superior to others. After all, that's how and why we make choices about values - as examples, compare:

* in Society A, women are subordinated, confined, with far fewer rights than men - while in society B, women have formal equality of rights;

* in Society A, gays are executed or thrown off roof-tops - while in Society B, they have equal rights with non-homosexuals;

* in Society A, nobody are executed for renouncing their religion, or for professing no religion - while in Society B, people are free to believe whatever they like;

* in Society A, 'discussion' is restricted to citing 'authorities', those with power, and thereby merely echoing those in power - while in Society B, discussion can be lively, argumentative, offensive, passionate, and from people's own convictions, not someone else's;

* in Society A, women can be stoned to death for supposedly committing adultery - while in Society B, women, and men, are legally free to commit adultery - and take the social consequences.

And so on. Once upon a time, we were all cannibals, butchering neighbouring groups if we could, raping their women. In some societies, women are still being burned as witches: young women are butchered by their families on suspicion of bringing shame onto them. [How come it is usually women who cop the crap from some of those crap societies ?]

The problem with suggesting that not all cultural practices are of equal value is that we then have to analyse and make judgements: we, ourselves, out of our own heads and experiences - not wait for some 'authority' to tell us what to think. Ah, but that can take courage, it carries risks, one could be wrong. Yes, indeed, but that's how societies move forward.

Joe

Excellent post by Loudmouth, who might appreciate (as I did) the five minute response by Pat Condell to a Moslem "We Hate Your Democracy" riot in the UK. It's at https://dotsub.com/media/72457cbc-fe18-4053-ae3f-6c7639cf4e79/embed/

Sorry, I've accidentally repeated myself over Pat Condell